Like computer software, your brain is programmed to keep you safe, but sometimes it’s doing its job all too well. One area of that is judgement. When we receive judgement, especially when we use our voice, we have this fear of judgement from ourselves and especially from others. What will they think of me? Will I be perceived as smart and knowledgeable versus weak and not knowing what I’m talking about? 

Maggie Perotin is a business and leadership coach who recently launched her podcast and touches on this very thing. She reveals how she’s reconnected with her voice without changing the way she speaks and has continued to showcase who she is behind the mic on her podcast.

We also discover:

  • How Maggie uses her voice fully and embraces her accent.
  • Her entire workflow from idea to recording a podcast episode.
  • The mindset blocks she had to overcome along the way.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Engage with Maggie:

Connect with Mary!

Our Conversation:

Mary

You know, humans are a funny species. Our brain sounds so magnificent. It works in interesting ways, though, that we probably haven’t even scratched the surface on. One thing I do know after having a serious concussion and brain injury, is that your brain lies to you. Probably more often than you’d like to think or would like to admit. Like computer software, your brain is programmed to keep you safe, but sometimes it’s doing its job all too well. One area of that is judgement. When we receive judgement, especially when we use our voice, we have this fear of judgement from ourselves and especially from others. What will they think of me? Will I be perceived as smart and knowledgeable versus weak and not knowing what I’m talking about? Yes, people make quick judgements of others in seconds, especially when it comes to voice. I talk a lot about this in my previous episode. Episode number 41 – Embrace Your Accent. So if you follow along with that one, make sure you listen to that one as well if you haven’t yet, after you listen to the rest of this episode. It’ll come in handy, it’s like a match made in heaven. But Okay, these judgements that people make, more often than not, these preconceived notions are often not true. Judgement from others do not play out as what swirls around in our heads when we’re projecting our thoughts about the future. So in this case, what will people think of us? That is the future. We are actually going to lose control of our present if we keep thinking about other people’s judgement on us, and it’s that loss of presence of how we use our voice in that moment to communicate our emotion, our passion and our message that gets really, really lost when we start projecting into the future and thinking about what others might, and they’re probably not thinking about us. My guest today touches on this very thing, that by using her voice fully and embracing her accent without changing the way she speaks, and to not try to fix this bias that her listeners may or may not be thinking about. This way, she truly showcases who she is behind the mic on her podcast, inviting her listeners along the journey with her voice.

Mary

Maggie Perotin is a business and leadership coach who launched her podcast, The Diamond Effect in July 2021. As a newer podcaster on this podcasting journey, she provides valuable insight into her reasons of why she started a podcast, even with her accent. Keep listening to learn more about the benefits of having someone to walk alongside you when you launch your podcast, how her process of creating her show and how she prepares for each episode, which is so vital to creating great content for your podcast, and tips on motivation to continue and do better on her podcast for each and every episode. Enjoy my conversation with Maggie as she reveals how she’s reconnected with her voice and how she reclaimed her accent all along the way.

Mary

Accents play such a big role, especially on podcasting, where the format is all about your voice, and there’s no visual distractions. So tell me, Maggie, about how you grew up and how English played a role in your life.

Maggie

Yeah, so I’m originally Polish, and I spend, I guess, still most of my life in Poland, not adult life, but most of my life. I was born and raised in Poland during communist regimes so English definitely wasn’t even the first language that I learned. The first one was Russian for a couple of years because that’s what we had to and then a bit of French. But I did start learning English because, you know, like when you are a foreigner with a language that nobody really cares to learn, right? Or wants to learn, other than maybe people who live in Poland for whatever reasons, work in Poland, and so on. Then, you kind of start learning languages where you can communicate with other people, especially if you like travel or just, like, have family abroad and so on and English is that international language. So I started learning it. I don’t remember exactly how old I was, but I guess around 15, maybe a bit earlier. I was learning it in Poland somehow through high school a little bit, but then more intensive in order to get to the programme at the university that I wanted to get in actually. It was English or my low level of knowledge that didn’t allow me to get that first time over. So, like, I passed the exams, but trying to get it was my lead programme and my English wasn’t good enough. So I decided to spend a year preparing again for the exam and brushing up my English in order to get that university programme. Once I got there a year later then I had a lot of English there. So that’s kind of how I started and of course it helped me to immigrate to Canada down the line.

Mary

Yeah, that’s so beautiful that you have so many different languages in your life. I really connect with that too. Like, I speak Cantonese. That’s the language that was in my household. And yeah, like people don’t want to learn that. So you, you know, I was born in Vancouver, so I had to learn English. I was forced to. I really connected with that. So then fast forward many, many years later from being a kid, you decide to start a podcast, you know, featuring your voice. As I said earlier, podcasting is all about using your voice. I know a lot of people that I’ve talked to, sometimes they’ll say, Oh yeah, an accent. Oh, that’s kind of a deterrent for me for starting a podcast. So what drove you to want to start a podcast in the first place?

Maggie

It’s funny, like “accent,” you say. I always joke that I speak, like, fluently, really, three languages, right? Polish, French and English, and I have an accent in the three of them by now. So even in Polish, my polish is not as clean anymore. Yes, I’m speaking Polish and I have a Polish accent in it, but they’re still like that English influence just because I live in English speaking country, think in English by now and so on. So it’s funny to say that, but I think when you start learning languages, you just end up with an accent in every language.

Mary

Yeah, yeah.

Maggie

As to what drove me to start a podcast, when I started my coaching business, of course, I started marketing my business online and so on and I started going out there on social media, creating some posts, doing some lives and part of those lives, I was also doing sometimes interviews or trainings, whatever, right, to market my business, give out value and so on. And then I think somebody at some point, one of my clients, suggested, you know, they’re like, Oh, it would be great if you recorded some of those trainings on podcasts. And I was like, Well, that sounds great. But, you know, I don’t know if that’s a good idea or if I would be good at it and so on. But that idea stuck in my mind. And I also I didn’t have a concept yet, so I wanted to, sort of, have a concept for a podcast, right? I just didn’t want to go out there and start recording a bunch of things that didn’t have, like, beginning or ending or really not put together. But then I did come up with an idea last year as to what would the podcast be about? How would I call it? Like, what is it all about? And it’s really aligned with my coaching philosophy. And I started looking at it and I definitely had the thoughts like, Hey, your voice sucks. I guess, I don’t like… I don’t necessarily love my voice through the phone or radio. I actually even, I remember as a child, somebody told me that I think it was a summer camp and there was a summer camp and we did that vulnerability exercise where we were just telling each other like teenagers, whatever things that maybe we thought about a person that weren’t great, but like just to be vulnerable and say, like, we all have those thoughts, right? And actually, somebody told me that they were making fun of my voice so it sort of stuck with me. And it… don’t get me wrong, it didn’t traumatize me, but it always stuck with me at the back of my head saying, my voice, it’s not a radio voice. You know, it doesn’t sound great. It’s just whatever. So I had those thoughts and I had the thoughts about my accent and I had the thoughts about well, if I start recording and what if I get stuck, right? Or what if I like miss a word? Because that happens to me sometimes, right? I speak and it’s just like an English word escapes me. And then I think of a French word or a Polish word instead or whatever.

Mary

Yeah.

Maggie

I don’t know what to say.

Mary

Too many languages!

Maggie

Yeah. What if that happens? But you know what I worked through, I said, Okay, well, it is what it is. I can’t change my voice. If people don’t like it, they won’t listen to it. And those who will resonate with my content, that’s who I’m doing it for, right? Not for people who care about how my voice sounds, but for people who want to get value out of what I have to say, you know? Then I thought, Oh, well, Okay, what about if I get stuck and so on? And I didn’t want to spend a lot of time editing because, you know, I was doing it alone. And I was like, Oh, I don’t want to record for 30 minutes and then spend 40 minutes trying, or 2 hours trying to edit everything out. So I just started like, Okay, well, I’ll, I’ll see how it goes. If I have to edit, I do, but maybe I can make a joke out of it. Or I can just come up with an idea just like I do in a regular conversation when this happens to me.

Mary

I was going to say, Yeah, podcasting, it can be highly edited, but if this is you in real life, then it should be reflected on your podcast as well. Because as the podcast is the extension of your business and your brand, you know, when they work with you, you’re going to come up with that situation.

Maggie

Exactly. And you know what? It’s funny because then I did have somebody like a lady from the U.S. that actually… a listener of my podcast and we knew each other and she mentions, you know, Maggie, I love the fact that sometimes you’re missing English words and you’re like looking in your brain and I love to listen to that. So, see like the thing is that we have all those preconceived thoughts about what people will think and so on that very often are not true.

Mary

Exactly. I love that you focus-in on who you want to serve and not the judgement from others. And having that light-heartedness about the situation you’re in and making fun and having that self-deprecating humour goes such a long way and is, like you said, easier and faster than editing.

Maggie

Yes.

Mary

Because if you do stop and then you’re like, Okay, I need to restart that sentence, then you will have to edit. The editing does come into play. I believe that there should be at least some sort of editing in every single podcast to make sure that things are smooth. But if you use that as an advantage, you know, it’s, Oh no, what is that word again? It’s not this, and you can say the Russian word or whatever, you know, people connect with that, people connect with vulnerability. So I love that. Thank you for sharing that story.

Maggie

Yeah, no problem. I guess you’re right. Like, I guess your personality comes out and it’s really authentic, which people like that you’re not pretending to be somebody who you’re not or pretending to speak in a way that you wouldn’t normally.

Mary

Exactly. So aside from the voice part, was there any other challenges that you had to overcome before starting a podcast?

Maggie

Not much. You know what? I do consider myself a pretty techie person, so I’m not scared of technology and so on, but I did do research and connected with the person who actually did podcasts before so like a mentor where we spent a couple of sessions where she was walking me through what she knew and so on. And we, you know, we know each other. So when she walked me through that, for me personally, it wasn’t that challenging the technology part. But just because back in my corporate background, I’ve done a lot with technology. I’m not an I.T. person, don’t get me wrong, but from like operational perspective and different systems and implementing them and training people on them and so on, I’m fairly confident.

Mary

You have an advantage.

Maggie

Yeah. So then the next thing was, Okay, well what am I going to talk about? But because I let that idea sit a little bit and then when I came up with the content and you know, again, in my profession as a business, coach, I do create a lot of content and there’s a lot of training that I do for my clients and so on, that also came fairly naturally, but it was a natural evolution of what I have been doing already, taking those concepts and either expanding them, you know, if it’s a post like it’s people read for 3 minutes whereas podcasts, it’s whatever, anywhere between 20 or however long you want to make it. So expanding and sort of preparing, right? I do prepare my episodes. I don’t go in like just oh, I will think about it 2 minutes before and then I’m gonna record. I actually, (a) I have a list of running topics that I would like to talk about. That’s one. And then there is time when I actually sit down and prepare with the episode, what I’m going to talk about, and then in a separate setting, I’m sort of recording that.

Mary

Beautiful. I love that you walked us through that workflow of yours, you know, and as of this recording, your podcast, The Diamond Effect, is you know, relatively young in the podcasting space. 32 episodes published so far. And I usually say when I work with people that ten to 12 episodes you will get into the groove of your systems and your processes and you’ll tweak things along the way. So you at 32 having, you know, more than, oh geez I was going to say doubled, but tripled that ten to 12 episode mark. What’s the one thing that you wish you did differently?

Maggie

I would say the one thing that I want to do differently and maybe even, like, focus on is definitely, even more, think through the episode and spend more time writing it up and preparing. So I’m really, like, with the content when I’m delivering it, I’m all about giving value and being you know, my listeners to get as much out of the episode or whatever concept I’m explaining as possible. So I would say that, that now I’m noticing that the better I prepare, the deeper I think about it ahead of time, the better the podcast comes out as opposed to trying to rush it all. Like, you know, I have an episode and I want to keep consistent once a week, so I need to just come up with something, some content.

Mary

Right. Yeah. Yeah. That reminds me a lot too, of my radio days where, you know, as the host on the radio, you do have to prepare well ahead of time. It might sound like it’s off the cuff and you’re adlibbing and yes, there are sections that you can, but a lot of the times, you know, you do have to do what we call show prep. Who will you be talking to? What is that person? What is their history? What are the questions you want to ask? What are the trending topics of the day? Does it relate to what your audience wants? So I love that you are thinking about doing more of that prep work. Now, I know that one of the major questions that people will now have hearing you say you want to, you know, write it up, what do you mean by write it up? Do you actually have, like, a script that you write or is it bullet points? What’s that look like?

Maggie

So for me, it’s bullet point and concept. Even if I write the whole sentence, I don’t read it. So it’s for me just to, like, get my idea out. But it’s mostly bullet points that I want to talk about and then organize them in the logical order. So if I think about my audience, what’s the easiest and simplest way for them to follow the, the, you know, the episode, the content, actually learn from it and get value out of it logically and easy, so I don’t jump, you know, from one thought to another without sort of a logical order to read. But I write it down, like, by hand. I’m a pen and paper girl that I… yes, I spend my life in front of a computer. So whenever I can, I like to take it away. So I actually have a notebook where I write it. And then, you know, when I record it, I refer to it, right? There’s no video, no nothing. So you can have it in front of you. You can refer to it. You know, I speak it in my terms. I don’t read it. I don’t want it to sound too scripted, but I just refer to it and kind of like, what order to talk?

Mary

Yeah, that’s what something that I usually advise people to, especially if you don’t have that broadcast background, you know. Reading a script is hard to make it sound natural. So having those bullet points is really great. And I love how you even said you write out the whole sentence sometimes, but you don’t even say it like you still use it as a bullet point. So that’s beautiful. Love that. What has been your biggest success so far? And first of all, everyone can define success for your podcast in many, many different ways. I have a client who had… was so excited that she got you know, 50 downloads in the first 30 days and I’m like, Yeah, that’s because, you know, if you think about you standing in front of a room, when was the last time you stood in front of, you know, 50 people? Pre-pandemic, of course. You stood in front of 50 people and talked to them directly. But you know, it’s never about those numbers, the download numbers people talk so much about in the industry. So as you reflect on the past 32 episodes or so of your podcast, what is your successful moment?

Maggie

I guess for me is really knowing that there are some people listening on it on a regular basis and truly getting value and enjoying it. And I did have one of the listeners tag the podcast and I’m not getting a lot of hundreds or anything of downloads per episode at all, but I had one of the listeners tag me in their Instagram stories having like, I love this podcast, it’s like free business coaching. Great. So…

Mary

Ah, I love that!

Maggie

Even if it’s just a few, but people who are loving it, who will listen every podcast episode you get out there, it just makes you so much more motivated to do more and do better because you know you’re helping somebody and you’re motivating or inspiring somebody.

Mary

Yes, I love those. I love it too, when I hear people share those types of stories because as a podcaster, sometimes it could feel very lonely like it’s just you behind the mic, especially when it’s just a solo episode, not like an interview. And so to have that visual piece of someone say. I do listen to your show, you’re like, Oh my gosh, you’re a real person.

Maggie

Exactly. And you’re enjoying it, that’s even better.

Mary

Yay! Yeah. And I know, too, a lot of people will be thinking podcasting sounds like a lot of work. So how has that changed your schedule along with your business? Like, how does your podcast integrate into your business schedule?

Maggie

It just became part of my business or part of my marketing strategy or even like giving value long term, right? Because it’s not something that, Oh, yeah, I’ll have. Or at least this is not how I think about podcasts that are like, Oh, I will release ten episodes, I will have millions of listeners, and then I’ll find clients. So for me, it’s really part of the long-term strategy where I just want to go out there and give people value and put myself out there and also share my ideas the way I think about business, the way I think about leadership and so on. So I just incorporate that in my schedule, you know, like I am very good at working or kind of having good habits in my business and incorporating that in my schedule. This is what I teach my clients. So it wasn’t a challenge for me, but what’s helping me is that breaking up the creation of each episode into smaller sizes, right? Because if I had to think of a topic, just what am I going to talk about in the first place? And then preparing for that and then recording it for one sitting that would be very difficult to do and very, very hard to be consistent with. So as I said, what helped me is break that out. So I have a running list of ideas that comes from, you know, my coaching or just me doing some reading, self-development, whatever, right? Observations, conversations with people and so on, in my industry in business coaching. So I have a running list of topics then depending on, you know, if I don’t have anything special going on, like let’s say if I have something going on, then there might be a theme to a few episodes or just I have an idea and I can’t put it in one episode, then maybe I’ll do like a mini-series then, but if not, then I pick a topic and then I have a regular sitting in my schedule. Okay, this is when you’re going to sit and decide on and kind of write out what you’re going to say about this topic. And then the next sitting in my schedule to record it and then sort of do the technical part. That’s how I break it down. It’s just part of what I do. That’s part of running my business.

Mary

Yeah, exactly. It’s just all integrated in there. And I love this way that you’ve created your content schedule, almost like your content calendar, and it sounds like you’ve got such a great workflow happening. So thinking about your podcast for the next stage of it, or maybe the growth or the next 32 episodes in the future, what’s your next big step that you want to take with your podcast?

Maggie

I guess my next big step is to (a) have definitely… and it’s funny because everybody’s thinking about shortening their episodes and I’m thinking maybe I should expand them a little bit. So, going the other way.

Mary

What are your episode lengths so far though?

Maggie

It’s usually about 25 to 35 minutes. Maybe I had like maybe one or two that were 40-42, but like, usually, it’s about 25 to 35 minutes. Now I know that there is, my listeners like it. That it’s not too long, but I would say definitely diving in deeper in the topics and again, like preparing more and to give even more value and more in-depth. So that’s my, probably, big work for, for this year and then maybe incorporating a little bit more. I don’t do a lot of guest shows, but I tend to bring my clients on from time to time. Just to share their journey, their experience, how they’re growing their business, you know, what helps them and so on. So maybe doing a little bit of more of that this year because I will have like a full year of podcasting. I launched it last year in July, so I haven’t really run it for the whole year yet.

Mary

Yeah, you know, even with it not being a year like you just look at it at episode counts because some people could just released one episode a month, you know, if they do 32 episodes, like that’d be a couple of years and you think, Oh, wow, you, you know, you’ve been podcasting for a few years, but really you’ve only got like 20 episodes or whatnot. So you’ve, you’ve accomplished quite a bit in this past year.

Maggie

Thank you.

Mary

Congratulations.

Maggie

See, this is not, definitely not how I think about it. I was like, Okay, I’m going to have a podcast and I wanted to do it weekly so it’s fresh and I get to get out my ideas and so on. And that was my thought. So I’m, like, sticking to it. So I always think, yeah, it hasn’t been that long or that much.

Mary

Do you find that having a weekly show is a lot of work?

Maggie

No. The way I think about it, like this is the marketing strategy that works for me that I enjoy and I want to do. And I’d rather do that than try to do some other marketing strategy or tactic that I wouldn’t enjoy as much. For me, in my case, if I wasn’t doing the podcast, then I would be still doing some sort of other marketing and I love it this way. I like to teach, I like to give value, and that’s a great platform for me so no, I don’t find it too much work. I enjoy it.

Mary

I love your perspective on how it’s just totally integrated into your business. And truly you can see that, you know, you are a business coach because you know you’re doing all the systems and you’re doing it all for your podcast. And this is so great to hear.

Maggie

Yeah, you know what? I lead by example. I believe in, you know, we’re all leaders in whatever we do or whomever we are. And I believe in not just talking but actually walking the talk. So yeah.

Mary

Yeah. And I think that’s exactly perfect. You know, any other coaches who want to start a podcast, this is exactly it. Like you get to show your potential clients how you get to work with them and what it is like working with them. So like you were saying right at the very beginning, let’s leave those little stutters in when you forget words because that’s what it’s going to be like when they work with you and you get to have a bit of play with your sense of humour there. I love this.

Maggie

Yeah.

Mary

All right. So as we’re wrapping up one of the last questions I always ask is what excites you most about podcasting right now?

Maggie

Right now, what excites me more? it’s really getting my ideas from my head out there to people and know and believe in the beginning because you don’t know right? Okay, but believe that they actually help even if it’s just one person at a time. I truly love that. And the fact that you can do it sort of on your own time in the comfort, right, like a lot of people are scared to go on camera and go live and so on. So with podcasting, that’s taken away, right? You’re doing it at a time that works for you. You’re not worried about, like, Oh, maybe a live, I should go live at this time, but I can’t because maybe I have a job and podcasting is on the side or whatever, right? It’s totally your control where you want to record it. You don’t need to even dress up that well, right? Like you don’t… there isn’t that like your hidden or your image is hidden. You can just be yourself through the microphone and do it on your time, on your terms and then release the episode, whenever works for you. So, so that’s very cool but I’m most excited about just, like, getting my ideas out there and sharing them with people.

Mary

Yeah. I love that when you talk about, you know, doesn’t matter what you look like and stuff. Yeah, podcasting and pyjamas, podcasting and sweatpants. It really is a thing.

Maggie

Yeah.

Mary

And be comfortable too. I find some people might want to, you know, if they do the video portion, then they have to get all dressed up and, you know, put on whatever, a suit or something. But then they feel restricted and it doesn’t really free your voice either. So I love the traditional sense of the no video, just audio podcast and we get to relax and be ourselves.

Maggie

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I always say, like, even to my clients, don’t take on too much or don’t put unnecessary pressure on yourself. So, if you want to start with podcasting, but then you want to do, Oh, I should do video and I should do this and so on. No, like, start with the smallest step that you are comfortable with and it could be just audio first and then you can grow into it, right? You can grow into once you have, as you say, your flow and your system, then you can grow into Okay, now I’m going to do video and do this and something else with it. You know, I just want to encourage everybody because Mary, you have, like, a such a great show here and I’m sure you’re helping your clients. Like, if podcast is something you want to do because you have ideas in your heads and you have a story to tell and you want it, I’d just take the smallest steps and do it. And if you’re, you know, not maybe as techie as I am or you’ve never done that, like, hey, there is somebody like Mary who can help you do it. So just get the help, get a bit of courage and do it. It’s a lot of fun.

Mary

Oh, thank you so much, Maggie. It was such a pleasure having you on. And yeah, The Diamond Effect, that’s your podcast. You go check that out.

Maggie

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Mary. It’s been a pleasure, too. Thanks so much.

Mary

So there you have it. Your motivation to take that first step or next step, no matter how small it is to start or to continue with your podcast. I love Maggie’s idea and her approach to her podcast, which all comes from her business and leadership coaching background. I use this technique myself of breaking down the steps because it’s less overwhelming this way. And when you make your focus more narrow down to each step, it gets you away from that pressure of completing such a big project, whether it is a launch or recording your next episode. I hope my conversation with Maggie has inspired you to either launch that podcast you’ve been thinking about or to keep going if you’re still in those first few episodes or have lost a bit of your podcasting mojo, along the way.

And if you don’t know what those steps are or still feel like you’re not sure where to start, as Maggie graciously suggested at the end of our conversation, I would love to help. Email me mary@organizedsound.ca or send me a “Voicemail” with the purple button on this page. I’ll catch you there. And also on the next episode.