Storytelling is at the heart of podcasting. Whether you have an interview show creating a scripted podcast or even a solo episode of your own, it’s all about being authentic, truthful, and to be confident in sharing your story through your voice. Even though, traditionally, podcasting is an audio-only platform, through our storytelling, we can still feel, smell, and visualize all through how we tell a story. One of the best things about podcasting is that we can paint a picture to create the theatre of our minds. Our sensories are heightened through our voice alone.

Sophie Wadsworth joins me to discuss how we can nurture a culture of storytelling for podcasting. She brings a passion for helping leaders craft and deliver personal, mission-centred stories. She draws on her experience as a writer and executive leader to collaborate with you in creating unique presentations. We’ll tackle what a story actually is, how storytelling builds on emotional connections and what the building blocks to storytelling are to crafting a unique story for podcasters. 

We’ll also build on: 

  • How to improve your communication to nurture empathy and inclusivity.
  • What you can do today to improve the way you communicate solo and with guests.
  • The importance of being a good listener, how to provide value, and how to maintain a natural and conversational pace.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Engage with Sophie:

Connect with me!

Our Conversation:

Mary

Sophie, thank you so much for coming on the show. And you are all about storytelling, so I wanted to bring you on because I think on a general level, people think they know what a story is. Like for me, I was told there’s a beginning, middle and end. Great. But that probably doesn’t create much impact. So, in your eyes, what is a story?

Sophie

For me, a story involves some kind of conflict, some kind of problem where we want to follow what the listener says next, or we want to turn the page and see how it turns out. I would also say that story involves some kind of change for the character. Things are not the same at the end as they were at the beginning. And it might be something quiet, like acceptance. And yet there is change. So, that story too. And also, I would say stories are entertaining.

Mary

So, with that entertaining aspect, though, you know, sometimes people might think, oh, I have to be funny to be entertaining. What’s your take on that?

Sophie

Some great stories are certainly funny. I have storytellers and stories I love that make me laugh. Entertaining is anything that sweeps us up out of our circumstances and takes us into another world in some way. The storyteller has painted a picture with words, and we can take it in really through our senses. We can smell it and we can see it and really have a felt experience of what the characters, the people are experiencing. So that in some way we are experiencing it ourselves, and that’s very entertaining and transporting. So it could be a sad story and still be entertaining as long as it sweeps us away and take us to another place, another kind of emotional state.

Mary

You mentioned earlier that we could feel it and we could smell it. How is that possible?

Sophie

Well, that is the magic of words. So I guess it’s possible if I’m a good storyteller. If not, people are wondering what’s for lunch? What’s my next appointment? You know, it’s really through detail. It’s through giving people those particulars, whether it’s just describing what someone is wearing or the smell that’s in the room. There’s a faint smell of popcorn coming through the doorway. Or it can be anything the quality of light or how the chair feels under the person who’s talking. It was a stiff, uncomfortable chair as the interview began. So it’s those sensory details.

Mary

And those sensory details bring on that emotion as well. Would those two things tie in together?

Sophie

They do tie in together. And what’s really fun, I’ve experienced, as a storyteller is to choose the details thinking about what work I want them to do. So, we can choose details that are fairly neutral. Wearing a navy sweatshirt, a day with puffy clouds in the sky, they’re details that tell us a few things, but they’re not super evocative. Or we can choose details that get really specific and have more of a feeling and a character to them. So to say they’re wearing Think Pink sweatshirt, that’s three sizes too big. And it’s the kind of day when it looks like the trees in the gusts of wind are close to blowing over. Almost like we’re underwater and the waves are rushing through the branches, that’s got a feeling to it, a Think Pink sweatshirt and the way the trees are moving. That’s… sets a mood in a different way than simple detail. Any detail is helpful to bring the reader into our world, and the fun is that in the moment, whether it’s the first time you’re telling a story or the 50th time, you can choose the details and you can sort of create the feeling that you want to evoke and play around with that as the story goes.

Mary

Yeah. And you know, I’m thinking also with podcasters, whether you are being a guest on a show or maybe you’re just networking and meeting new people. We’re always just saying, you know, oh who are you? Nice to meet you. Well, this is my name, this is who I am, and this is the name of my show. Is there anything that we should be doing to create essential stories that we need to share to make us more unique and stand out?

Sophie

First, I want to take a step back and invite us all to think about where our comfort zone is. So what’s the natural way for us to answer that question? How personal do we want to be at the outset? How quirky or even eccentric or out of the box might we want to be in answering the question? So thinking about the parameters of our comfort and depending on what those limits are, we can have fun with the question. We can sidestep it and say, I will tell you. First, I want to thank you for fill in the blank. I love starting with thanking people because I feel a lot of gratitude when I’m in those situations. Thanks for telling me about this event. Thanks for coming up and talking to me because I don’t know anyone here. So it’s fun to sidestep for a minute and say something you want to say to, I guess, break the ice, for lack of a better word, to just shake things up a little. And then, yeah, you can answer the question – what you do or what’s your work or who are you? Again, depending on your comfort, you can begin with the detail that you feel sets the tone, and it may well depend on a setting or the person you’re interviewing, what detail you want to share.

Well, I am a lifelong surfer and I’m a podcast host, and this isn’t me, of course. But none of these things are true and so on with things that are more resume-like. So you could kind of read the room, but even within that, you can share details, you know, that just start the conversation well. I mean, we’ve all have that question. What do you do? What work are you in? What company are you at? And it doesn’t mean you have to answer it right away or answer it in a conventional way. So I would say play with that. And then, I’d say further to think about being unique, consider what’s most relatable for the person. If sharing a hobby, a love of cooking, or some activity that’s relatable, if it’s in this programme that no one’s ever heard of, it’s not necessarily going to be the best start to the conversation, but something that’s sort of broad that everyone’s going to get that can just invite conversation. You know, I’m someone who loves to cook, lives, you know, in the heart of the city, in a shoebox apartment. And oh yeah, I work at Fidelity whatever. And it goes on from there.

Mary

Yeah, it got me really thinking about, I do it automatically, that prep work that you were talking about – setting the tone. And I think podcasters forget that. That you are actually in the driver’s seat when you’re speaking. So whatever you want to share, those details will set the tone for the conversation and that leads me into confidence. So maybe people are afraid to share those details. How can we be more confident to deliver those messages and know that these little details are OK to share?

Sophie

That’s such an important quality to bring to the table, to feel confident and to feel relaxed and feel centred. Certainly being truthful and sharing material that’s from the heart, from your life that you’re comfortable with. Again, it goes back to what sort of feels useful for you to share is good.

Now, if you woke up like I do some mornings and sometimes my commute would involve unexpected deference to a small family of Turkeys crossing the road. I might just see one at the edge. And then suddenly there’s six of them right there dead-centre looking at me sort of to say, is there no detour for you? Because we’re here and you’re in this big thing and they’re all sort of talking amongst themselves. And I am just sort of watching this happening, playing, they’re going, looking for the rest of their breakfast. And that’s something I could share that morning if I were a podcast host to say, now what kind of critters are in your neighbourhood? And you could tailor it to who you’re talking to. But that would be so truthful to say, if you said first, how was your morning? And they answer, and then they might say, how is yours? Or you can launch into it? And yeah, it actually involved an early meeting with a family of turkeys and there were six of them, I think. Multi-generation. And that will set a tone, right? And it’s truthful, right? It happened. So that makes it easier. So it’s that authenticity and it’s kind of relatable. I mean, most of us have encountered a squirrel, a chipmunk, a pigeon or a turkey if we’re blessed to have them around. So that’s not to say authentic, truthful something you’re comfortable with. And again, being aware of how, how you want to come forward to the person you’re speaking with, you know, what kind of feeling do you want to give them? I do find animals often just lead us to laugh and share our own stories in kind, you know, to reciprocate and get us talking.

Mary

Yeah, animals are so, so relatable, especially if you find out like people and pets as well, right? Like dog lovers, cat lovers. There could be such a huge range of motion tied to animals. And it brings me to think about stories too, because I’m like, oh you’re talking about all the turkeys and stuff and it brought me back to my time. I used to work at a petting farm when I was in my teen years. And so, like, when you talk about animals, that brings me to think about stories that I want to share. So what you’re trying to share here is quite essential, I think, in the podcasting world because when you start a story, it wants me to share a story as well. So then, you are going back to the very beginning when you said a story involves conflict and to follow what will happen next or a change for a character. How does that play a role when, for example, you as a guest on my podcast, how do you share that story about conflict or change in you?

Sophie

Well, I’ll share a personal anecdote to say that it does come back to that before and after. That there’s how things are now and then, passing through and experience something transformative, come back to that in a moment and say, I’m remembering a time I was visiting somebody who I knew that I wanted to reconnect with, and we had had just torrential rain. As it poured so hard it exceeded the capacity of my windshield wipers to even keep up. I started to wonder if this was a good idea and it was a spontaneous idea. This wasn’t, like, some official business-y call. And as I opened the door and put my foot down on the pavement, the water was running down the streets so high that it covered my shoe and I thought, well, here I am now with water literally inside my shoes. Like, I’m sort of carrying water into this office if I go in and should I go in? Now that’s the beginning of conflict, right? And I could set it up with more simplicity as far as who I was visiting. But there you go. You can picture the feeling of the water in your shoes. It’s summer, you’ve no socks on, and there it is. And I decide, no, this is the moment. Now is always the moment, and I’m going to go in and say hello and see what happens. So that’s the before. I walk in, and it’s actually not what I thought it was. It had totally different interior design. So I had that surreal feeling like being in a dream of this is not where I thought I was at all. And yet it actually looks like the place I was thinking of, and it is the right number. I noticed it walking in, even in the rain. And then a conversation happened there that was transforming as far as the people that I did meet and the connection that I did make with the person who was there.

So building that conflict of the wiper, not keeping up with the rain and the river in the gutter and the, you know, just the build-up starts to build this conflict of, I’m trying to reach out. I’m trying to meet this new person, just like we’re trying to meet a new client and make a good impression and all of that. So that builds a little conflict and anticipation. And then there’s the situation itself and the meeting and what happens. And then we can follow through what some of my thoughts were during the meeting and how I left. Having heard, you know, this company’s story, having been asked to do a training for them, to my great surprise and delight. So I wasn’t the same person after I left, nor were they. I like to think quite the same for having that serendipitous meeting.

So yeah, that’s a bit of how we then, sort of, conflict of a sort, a longing. A desire is often the engine in a story. Wanting something, right? Wanting to connect and wanting to achieve something.

Mary

I love that. And you use stories to illustrate that example.

Sophie

Well, it takes a good listener.

Mary

And I guess that’s the other thing, too. Like, it really is a two-way street. You can tell the stories, but I have to listen as well and provide that feedback and to continue that story.

Sophie

Yes. And I think there’s a quality in listening. And it’s interesting to think about a podcast where it’s the voice. And yet I think even silence has a kind of quality to it that is more or less inviting.

Mary

Oh yes. I always say silence is key.

Sophie

Yes. How we enter back in after the silence. You know how we receive it and then sort of respond, informs the speaker what kind of permission they have to speak at their pace to keep going with where they’re going. So that kind, patient attention, I think, is very, very powerful. It’s certainly powerful for me as a coach to bring that attention to people, and it’s very powerful when I feel it from a podcast host like you, where there’s space to move, move into a story or move into a thought that I’m having just in the moment.

Mary

Oh, thank you. It reminds me of a client I worked with, and she said she was doing a bunch of guesting spots, and she felt like each podcast that she was on was like a one-night stand. It was just bam, bam, bam. Question, question, question. Dot. So I do like to provide that space. I don’t want this to feel like a one-night stand. And you know this, this is a chance for people to speak. You know, when a podcaster is either behind the mic themselves on their own show or being a guest. Having that permission to speak at their own pace is so, so beautiful. And I also think it has to do with the fact that we are not all broadcasters and we have to have this broadcast voice. The whole beautiful thing about podcasting is that we get to hear different voices with different pacing, different cadence, and you were alluding to before we started the conversation about poetry, and that really just ties in together so much because when I think of poetry and it being as a listener of poetry, if somebody is reading it out loud, there is that beautiful cadence and pacing. How does that tie into storytelling?

Sophie

Well, I want to add as I hear you talk about it. And try to stand in your shoes as a podcast host that I think listening itself is transformative. We’ve been talking about how story can be transformative. I think listening can be very transformative, whether it’s a podcast, an interview, business conversation or a discussion with family, friends joking, telling stories across the table. Yeah, the quality of listening has the chance to change us all. So for poetry, because it is written in these lines that provide this space and silence at the end and even space, kind of, between stanzas, take a certain kind of time and attention to rhythm that’s a little different than everyday speech. Poetry gives us a chance to just move at a different pace, I think. I think silence becomes more part of the message in poetry, and each word can have a certain power, especially if we let there be silence afterwards.

So an example I used back when I was teaching high school how we looked at poetry was, if I say to you, Mary, this is my new…. England. I’m giving a space after the word ‘new.’ And in that space, things happen in your mind, because that’s usually how the mind works. And unless you’re really distracted, you may have filled something in or some possibilities ran through your mind. England was not likely to be one of them because I’m breaking up things that are together. So that’s a little bit of a wonky example. But I love it because it shows you that we’re conditioned to hear words at a certain pace. We’re just used to hearing a pause where there isn’t usually one or put a pause where you want a word to float out there and open into people’s imagination as a fun way to use pace and rhythm.

So think about what word you want to land on. I would say to your listeners thinking about where you want to put emphasis, and you could even jot down some notes to yourself and put a mark where you want the emphasis, where you want to pause and give them space to let their mind go somewhere. I think can be a very powerful technique to give more weight to things and give more space for the listeners, for your audience to come in and kind of be part of creating meaning. It’s like choose your own adventure. Kind of. In that silence, the mind comes in and finishes that bit because it doesn’t like to hang out there not knowing where it’s going. And then there’s the element of surprise when the speaker continues. And undoubtedly it’s different than… well hopefully it’s different. I should say it’s not like one of those songs with all those cliches where you can finish every rhyme and you just know right where it’s going. They better have some good guitar solos if they’re going to keep me listening to a song like that.

Mary

Yeah, I love the audio world of podcasting, too, because you have that time to let things pause and land. And you don’t have that visual distraction. What makes you excited about podcasting right now?

Sophie

I love being in conversation with people. There’s a Polish poet named Szymborska who writes about the miracle that the unthinkable can be thought. And what I love about podcasts are things that I haven’t thought of that are, you know, have been unthinkable for me so far come forth just by having the conversation that I say things I didn’t know, I knew or had known or just sort of put together. There’s this kind of alchemy happening, and that’s very fun. It’s almost like that saying, if I don’t know what I think fully until I say it and in the presence of another person, there’s this other dimension that comes in that’s very creative and dynamic and fun, and I love connecting with other people. So that’s what I’m loving about podcasts right now is I am just launching into more coaching and consulting work. And yeah, figuring out what are all the ways that story can be meaningful for people in all these different settings and bring out fun into our work. And yeah, I guess I would just say, bring out our most true selves, you know, let us be who we really are through story and language.

Mary

Yeah. And I think with story and language and like you say, who we truly are is so representative through the use of your voice and using your voice to spread that message that you have. So, Sophie, thank you so much for joining me today. If our listeners are wanting to connect with you to learn more about your work, how could they do that?

Sophie

I invite folks to stop by my website at sophiewadsworth.com, or they could find me on LinkedIn.

Mary

Awesome! We’ll connect there. Thank you so much, Sophie.

Sophie

Thank you, Mary. Great talking with you.