How to Keep Fear From Overpowering Your Voice with Kat Stewart and Kevin Ribble – Episode 102

<< MUSIC IN – GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS >>

MARY: At its heart and core, what are you really doing when you’re podcasting? I mean, yes, a podcast is great for marketing, it’s good for your business, all that stuff. But what are you really doing when you’re podcasting? You are actually wielding superpower and creating power by making a human connection, a connection with your voice. 

I remember back in my radio school days learning these basics, these foundational things when we were in our voice classes, our radio classes that we had. In order to really reveal your “heart voice” and to make that connection that we’re talking about, you have to figure out all the gunk that’s in your head first. You know, a lot of podcasters, even though this medium is all about the voice, you don’t really think about how the mind is connected to the voice. And this mind of ours going to fear. Actually, that fear easily comes to the forefront through self judgment and especially with the judgment of others. You know, social media plays a huge role in that. 

So some of these feelings of my radio days came flooding back to me when I found out my former radio school instructors started their own podcast. It’s called Ignite My Voice Becoming Unstoppable. And after listening to a few episodes, I really reflected on my own voice journey and realized how so much of what I share today on this show and in my work and talking to other podcasters is foundationally what I was taught in school. Oh my gosh, spoiler alert. What I learned in school actually worked. [LAUGHTER] So I knew I had to bring them on the show since they have their own podcast now. 

Kathryn Stewart, or Kat, as I’ve always known to call her, and Kevin Ribble. They were my first voice teachers. They are accomplished educators with over 30 years of combined experience as media professors. And I bet if you live in Canada, and especially in Western Canada, you’ve listened on the radio or watched on TV, someone that they have taught, they’ve been that influential in the broadcasting world here. And I’m actually really honoured to have been one of their students at BCIT, the British Columbia Institute of Technology, where I specialized in that two year radio program that still exists today. 

So now that I’m actually away from their classroom, and can step back with some self awareness instead of the insecure 19 year old that I was way back then. It’s really nice to see that what they are talking about is also what I talk about. So that their mission is to empower people to step into their charisma, confidence, and presence, using their voice as the catalyst for making meaningful impact in the world. You’ll hear all about that in this episode. So listen in to create impact in your podcasting world with your voice. So it’s time for you to go back to school with me today. 

This is episode number 102 with Kat Stewart and Kevin Ribble on the Podcaster’s Guide to a Visible Voice.

<< WOMAN SINGS: So so so so let’s go >> 

Kat and Kevin, thank you so much for joining me. And we’re gonna take a walk down memory lane with me because it’s been a slice.

[INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

KEVIN: And how many years? Huh? How many years ago was it?

KAT: A long time.

MARY: Too long. Too long.

KEVIN: Hmm.

MARY: Graduate 2001. I still have to think about it, 2001. Yes.

KEVIN: Wow.

KAT: I can’t believe that we were here then. [LAUGHTER]

MARY: All right, so when I found out you guys have your own podcast now, I was like, oh, I gotta bring you on. I gotta walk down memory lane with you.

KEVIN: Mhmm.

KAT: Aw, thank you.

MARY: I want to pretend right now like we’re back in first year voice class at BCIT. I’m sitting there as a little 18, 19 year old, no idea what I’m doing. [LAUGHTER]

KEVIN: [SARCASTIC YELLING] Mary! Mary, sit up straight, Mary!

MARY: Exactly.

KAT: [SARCASTIC YELLING] Stop fidgeting!

KEVIN: [SARCASTIC YELLING] Breathe properly!

[LAUGHTER]

MARY: This is like trauma work instead. What did I get myself into?

KAT: [SARCASTIC] You’re late. Did you do your homework?

MARY: Yes. That was true actually.

KEVIN: Oh, it’s okay, Mary. You go ahead. You go ahead.

MARY: Okay. So I think most podcasters, when they start, they’re just like, oh, yeah, I buy a microphone, I plug it in, I start talking. That’s how this works. But I don’t think people realize when you become a podcaster, when you have a podcast, you are using your voice in a very professional sense. So, I want to give listeners a very foundational, like, big picture level about how you show up behind the mic. So, Kat, how about we start with you? How do you show up behind the mic?

KAT: Well, most people show up behind the mic scared.

MARY: Yeah.

KAT: Because they’re not used to working with the mic, but they’re used to working with their voice. So when you’re scared, you’re in your sympathetic nervous system, not in your parasympathetic nervous system. And that’s your rest and relax. When you’re able to control your breath and you find yourself rest and relaxed, then you can engage with your audience as yourself, as your authentic self. 

So we have to peel back so many layers before we even talk about how to get behind a microphone. We have to talk about what’s going on in your mind before we even talk about your voice, because your mind influences how your voice reacts to the situation, and that influences how you’re breathing. Because if you’re scared again, your mind’s saying, oh, my gosh, run, run, run. And your breath doesn’t support your words. 

MARY: Yeah.

KAT: So that’s a big thing.

MARY: This is going to be like a therapist episode.

KAT: Is that what you’re saying? That’s what we do. It’s fear is where we start. And Kevin can jump in anytime, because we talk about, in very first classes that we do, the fear of death. 

MARY: Oh. 

KAT: Oh, yeah, we go there, yeah

MARY: Kevin, death, expand on that.

KEVIN: Well, death is a good teacher, Mary. Let me say, first of all that you, uh, know we teach so much about vocal anatomy and breathing properly and all of that technical stuff, but Kat and I took about 10 years to write our two books while we thought about, all right, what’s the absolute core? How do you get really underneath this? Because people try to sound a particular way and stuff on mic, and they sound.

MARY: [USING A SARCASTIC RADIO VOICE] I’m gonna put on my radio hat because I’m a podcaster now, hello.

KAT: [USING A SARCASTIC RADIO VOICE] I’m professional, yeah.

KEVIN: They sound kind of goofy. And we’ve learned, you know, what it boils down to in the end? Connection. You need to connect to one other person. And you’re already pretty good at this when you’re super relaxed talking to your best friend. And so we gotta get you in that space. But that is a lot harder to do than it sounds. 

So we start by trying to imagine the friend you’re talking to when you get on mic first. And, you know, almost nobody does that at first. They totally forget they’re talking to a real person, and they either kind of talk to a wall or they read a script. And both of those things, they fail miserably. You sound like crap. And so, oh what do you do about that, right?

KAT: And sometimes you gotta sound like crap in order to know where to go from there…

MARY: Yeah. 

KAT: …you know, people expect to be perfect on the microphone or perfect behind a camera, but you got to fail a little to find out where you actually sit. And, you know, we watch our students come in, try things, fail and learn. And it’s okay to fail, but you do learn, and then you progress from that. So we start with, as Kevin says, the foundation of talking to that one person. And that really helps bring a conversation around to just feeling very comfortable for you in the end as the person behind the microphone.

KEVIN: So if we were working with a beginning podcaster, we’d probably say, okay, get on mic. Look at yourself in the screen. If you have to and open up the conduit to your friend. So you got to get that conduit open. So you got to imagine the real person and feel like there’s a pipe between you and the person you’re talking to. 

And the conduit is everything. You’ve got to feel their presence. You have to talk to them. You have to imagine their reaction to what you’re saying. And that’s more important than thinking about, well, am I using my whole range or, am I breathing for my diaphragm? Or any of that stuff. I mean, that comes in time. Because everybody’s got a certain way to express themselves, and they probably have more than they realize. But first, it’s the conduit. Get the connection. right.

MARY: You mentioned death. How does the death connect? Wait a minute.

KAT: Everybody has fears, right? What is the greatest fear in life? It’s the fear of death. If you can learn or find a way to accept your mortality and accept death, then what else is there to be afraid of?

MARY: Yeah. This whole idea of public speaking… 

KAT: Right.

MARY: …is not scary at all.

KAT: Then it shouldn’t be.

KEVIN: Yeah. To most people, public speaking is scarier than death. So we got to get in front of that, right? I just ran a class yesterday, actually, where death was the topic. Yeah. And you could hear a pin drop. It gets people present. It gets them facing that fear right away. Well, what’s the worst that could happen? Like Kat said, you know? If you can begin to recognize that you’re going to die, because most of us are in denial. Most of us are walking around pretending that’s never gonna happen and thinking all these other fears are so important. Well, that death puts it in perspective. 

And then, you know, I ask the students, so, you know, what do you want to do with your life? Because you could die tomorrow. And so, are you doing everything you can with it? Are you doing everything you can right now? That tends to get people pretty present and giving their all and facing stuff that they normally hide from, right? So that’s where, that’s where death’s a great teacher.

MARY: Yeah. Because I have people who are like, well, I know storytelling. I should share this, maybe I should share the story. But I don’t know. Is it too much? Like, how do you then know if something is too much?

KEVIN: Well, it’s that fear of judgment. You just nailed it. It’s the fear. Fear that, oh, I’m not good enough, or somebody’s going to think I’m kind of silly, or the idea is stupid. It’s that judgment we’re trying to blow out of the water. And if you start to realize this is your one chance, you’ve got a very little bit of time in life, and you’re passionate about your ideas, you got a conduit open to your friend. Share it, you know, give it all you’ve got. And stop in the judgment. Stop doing what you just described, Mary. Stop thinking, am I good enough?

KAT: Judgment comes when you’re looking at yourself critically and then you’re not in the moment. Then you’re not thinking about who it is you’re talking to, what it is you’re saying. You’re not present. Judgment serves no purpose. It only wounds us. And we’re the ones doing the wounding. Why would we do that to ourselves? So we help people get out of their judgment, get into present, talk to that one person, be who they are, be expressive. I mean, we love people when they make mistakes, don’t we? Because that makes them human. And we all make mistakes. 

Everybody’s worried about tripping up their words. I’ve tripped up mine a million times. Does that stop me? It doesn’t, because that’s just part of me. I made a mistake, okay? Mistakes will not end you. A trip up of a word. So we’re so afraid of saying the wrong thing. But if you’re not afraid of death, then that takes that all away from you, right? It just opens you up.

MARY: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

KEVIN: And we try to help people realize that they are not that important. It’s not you.

MARY: Yes. Yes. Right.

KEVIN: It’s your idea story and the fact that somebody’s listening, trying to understand it. And so stop thinking about yourself and wonder if the person is understanding the story. And that relieves so much pressure. And one other critical point here is that with judgment, and fear, and embarrassment, remember, you’ve got to be a participant in that. So, in other words, nobody can shame me but me. And once you recognize, oh, I’ve got to be part of that shaming process, if I don’t shame myself, if I don’t join that, it all goes away. Yes, you have the power not to shame yourself.

KAT: And you see why we start with the mind before we even start with the voice. Because when you unravel this. This is part of the process. This is what Kevin was talking about. It’s our holistic process. We look at what you’re thinking about because what you think interacts with how you participate. Then we move into what we call the body. So we start with the mind, we move into the body. How your voice works, then we move into the heart, the emotional capacity that we all have to connect. And then that leads to spirit, the charisma where everybody has an opportunity. You, me, our next door neighbour. We are not special because we do a podcast. We’ve just done it more often. And we have skills and techniques that other people may not recognize. But these are teachable and everyone can learn and do and be. Because everybody’s different. We’re all unique. And isn’t that wonderful? You know, I just love that.

MARY: Yeah, exactly. We are all unique. And you know you touched on doing the mind stuff first before your body and your emotions. And I think a lot of people forget that the voice is actually part of your body. Like it’s your larynx, your throat, like it is a body part in very many ways. So tell us more about, like, how the body and your emotions is showcased in your charisma, Kevin.

KEVIN: You know, your voice is you. You know, you know the old cliche your, your eyes are the window to your soul. We actually would say your voice is the window to you. Your voice is so personal. When was the next, last time you replaced your phone, maybe, and you had to re-record the voicemail? For a lot of people, that is the time that they really pay attention to their voice recorded… 

MARY: Yeah. 

KEVIN: …and what’s the reaction usually when people are doing the voicemail?

[IN UNISON]

KEVIN: Oh, I hate it. I sound awful.

KAT: Oh I hate it. Oh, it sounds so stupid.

MARY: [HIGH PITCH VOICE] I sound like that? [DISTASTE IN VOICE] Ewe.

[BACK TO JUST KEVIN SPEAKING]

KEVIN: And so most people,…

KAT: Judgement. 

KEVIN: …yeah, they don’t hear their voice. And when they do, it’s so personal. So the voice is all of you. And if you’ve ever been embarrassed by your voice, you know, playing it back, you get a sense of the emotion that’s embedded, the thinking, and the body, because you might now like the sound of it to an extent. So it’s all of you. When you recognize that it’s helpful. 

And then like Kat said, you know, what you think, you emotionally react to that thinking and the emotions your body responds to. And so often we introduce a lot of tension. Whether it’s latent tension, just you carry with you every day, or you’re called on to speak suddenly on mic or camera, you tighten all up. And so what happens with the body? Well, you know, we’re talking muscles, right? Like you said, yes, there are parts of your body. It can be deep in your torso as your diaphragm, your inner and outer abs, your intercostals between your ribs, the very muscles that pull on your vocal folds that set the pitch, all of it is muscle. And so as soon as you stress out, guess what the muscles do? They crank tight.

MARY: Tense [GROWLING TENSING NOISE]

KAT: And strict.

KEVIN: Instead of sounding confident and kind of cool and telling a great story, you know, your voice, it ends up doing this. [LAUGHTER] And, you know, that’s the physical reaction. Can you do stuff about that? Sure. You know, you gotta relax. You gotta start by relaxing.

KAT: And we all have these muscles. They’re all muscles. And muscles can be trained. Just like you go to the gym. We can help you train your muscles. There’s intercostal muscles in between your ribs, which expand to allow your diaphragm to expand so you breathe deeper. You have more air to work with, how it comes out through your vocal folds with the intention. 

And it’s almost like Acting 101. What is your intention to speak? How do you want it? It goes back to that connection. How do you want to connect? How do you want to present yourself? What are you saying? So your body reacts to that impetus, that intention.

KEVIN: We start simply, you know, we start with breath. Most people, you know, 90% of adults, breathe really shallow. And so you can start by teaching people how to breathe deeper, more of a yoga breath. And then posture plays a big role right away. So you can teach people good posture because you need to use your skeletal structure more than you think. It’s what’s holding you up, not your muscles. And so there’s lots we can teach about that. 

If you’re not using your body properly, you’re not breathing deep, you don’t have the power. And we go from there, and suddenly somebody has way more power. They’re using their different resonance zones to get a broader pitch range to be more expressive. And then you’re on the path, right? The path that you’ve discovered, right, Mary?

MARY: Yes. Took a long time, but I got there.

KAT: See, it becomes natural after time. 

MARY: Yes.

KEVIN: And you have a wonderfully expressive voice, Mary. So you got there, huh?

[LAUGHTER]

MARY: Thank you. Somehow I figured it out somehow. But okay. So going back to, okay, I’m a student, BCIT days, I actually remember, like, sitting in your offices listening to, oh, the lovely air checks, when, you know, we had cassette tapes that turn on every time we turned on the mic. Technology, my gosh, how has that changed?

KEVIN: [SARCASTIC] What is a cassette tape?

MARY: Yes, however. Okay. Podcasters don’t do enough air checks on themselves, right?…

KAT: Ah.

MARY: …They’ll record the episode, they’ll publish it, and then that’s it. They never go back to listen to it because they’re like, oh, I can’t listen to myself…

KAT: That’s the fear… 

MARY: Oh that’s an old one…

KAT: Judgment, there you go.

MARY: Yup that’s the fear. But okay, let’s say alright. Someone’s gonna listen back to their show. What should they be listening for when they’re doing their own self critique, their own air check?

KEVIN: You know, first I’d say play it a lot at first. Play it a bunch of times. And you’ll get used to your voice fairly quickly. You’ve got to divorce yourself from taking personally how you sound, so you can eventually just listen for what works and doesn’t. At first, you don’t listen. You just stay in this emotional dislike because you haven’t heard your voice enough. So just listen more for a little while at first, you know?

KAT: That’s really helpful. That’s what I do as an actor. I see myself on camera, I listen to myself. And there are things that I don’t like about how I look or what I’ve done, but I have to say, that’s not me, that’s the character. This is my presence. This is the effect of how I was feeling. Rather than critique me. 

So a lot of podcasters will get into what they’re doing rather than, how is the story unfolding, how is the connection with who it is they’re talking to, how is the connection with the listener? Are they transitioning through the questions? It’s not about how they sound, it’s about how are they reacting. And in acting, we’ve taught that it’s not about what you say, it’s about how you listen. So podcasting is really about listening too, isn’t it? You know that you’ve talked to enough people, so it goes for listening to yourself. It’s not about you. And your voice isn’t the most important thing, your character is. Your presence is behind that.

KEVIN: And the one thing you can check with your voice is that you are freeing you naturally. And so you gotta make sure you’re not putting anything on. So what I would do is probably get my best friend to listen with me. And I would ask the best friend, does that sound like me just chatting with you? And if they go, eh, no, then you gotta figure out, well, okay, why not? 

Because that’s how I want to sound, right? I want to sound like I’m super relaxed, I’m connecting with my best friend and telling them a story, and they’re super engaged. And instead, if it sounds like I’m reading, or I sound monotone, or I sound detached or something,… 

KAT: Or too formal. 

KEVIN: …Yep. Then my friend is going to say right away, Kevin, that does not sound like you just being you. And I got to figure out, okay why?

MARY: I love this. Okay…

KAT: [LAUGHS]

MARY: We’re done for now. I’m no longer in school. I’ve graduated. [LAUGHS]

KEVIN: [LAUGHS] Good girl.

KAT: Woohoo! You did it! [LAUGHS]

MARY: I want to transition into your own podcast. You started Ignite My Voice, Becoming Unstoppable earlier this year. Seasoned radio broadcasting professionals. Why a podcast for you guys? Why?

KEVIN: [SARCASTIC] Yeah, why, Kat, why?

KAT: I’m not sure. [PRETENDS TO CRY] You know what’s really funny? Everything that we talk about and we’ve talked about here. We also felt towards ourselves when we started our podcast. Who are we? Why are we doing this? What do we know? We’re just, you know, we’re just professors and we had to step out of that fear-based reaction. This is a big part of our business. This is how we connect with our community. We want to make the world a better place, and we had to put our money where our mouth is. 

So if our voices aren’t heard and if our presence isn’t seen, then who are we as a business to help other people? So we realized, okay, this is what we got to do. We got to start. And it’s been an amazing journey. And I think, Kevin, you’ll agree with me. When we first started, we listened to ourselves and went, oh, oh, is that how I sound? [LAUGHTER]

MARY: [SARCASTIC] Ha ha, ha ha! I can laugh at you guys now.

KEVIN: No, no, actually, Kat, I was just thinking that when I listened to you and I was great! I was there!

MARY: Oh. Ego, ego!

KAT: [LAUGHS] Oh, we have fun.

KEVIN: We have played podcasts for students and things and criticized what, you know, that isn’t going so well. And we realized that a lot of podcasters are missing some elements. What is great about podcasting that we loved is how edgy it is, risky it is because, you know, a lot of traditional broadcast is less risky. There’s scripts often involved. People know exactly where they’re going. There’s a time limit. There’s all this stuff. 

In podcasting often, you know, you’re interviewing, you’re chatting. It’s a conversation with a guest. You don’t know where it’s going at all. You don’t know what’s going to end. You’re just putting yourself out there. So, we admire that risk. But at the same time, podcasters often sound really unprofessional or don’t know the story they’re trying to tell. So we went, you know, if you married the two worlds, if you really were a good presenter and you were a good storyteller, but you were willing to take the risk, like in a podcast, and willing to lean on the conversation and the people more. That combo would be brilliant. So we dove in.

MARY: You know, this is reminding me of like, oh, I’m gonna be a student again. When I was there, you guys made us do a show called Making Contact,… 

KEVIN AND KAT [IN UNISON]: Hmm.

MARY: …which was the interview style show. I don’t know if you guys still do it now,…

KAT: Oh no.

MARY: …but I remember who, I remember like, me and all my friends are like, oh, I don’t want to do the show, this is the worst of all of them because we have to find the guests and we have to prep and like, figure out the questions and then make sure they show up and like, do the recording and then all the stuff. But essentially, I’m like, today, most podcasts are essentially Making Contact. It’s that interview-style show which I hated doing all those years ago, but haha! Look at me now. So what are you transferring from what you teach students about interviews and all of that that you are doing for your own show prep in the creation of your own podcast?

KAT: Sometimes the hardest things are where the greatest learning is, right? So I just want to go back to that. And we’ve had to transfer everything. I mean, there’s not one thing that I couldn’t say that we teach that we haven’t transferred to our own show, to listening, to creating the questions, to the one to one connection, to really thinking about our audience, to thinking about the meaningful introduction and the extro. To transition to, you know, some of our business messages so that we can help people change the world. It’s the foundation, the holistic model that we’ve come up with in the, in the classrooms over years of teaching that we practice every time we go on our podcast. And so nothing, I wouldn’t say that there is anything that we’ve left out.

MARY: I want to know then what was challenging, what was difficult for you guys in creating the show?

KEVIN: Bringing our passion into it really strong. Part of our business model is a noble pursuit. Like Kat said, part of what we are trying to do is make the world a better place. That comes out of the pandemic. It comes out of watching our neighbors to the south in the U.S. collapse that society. And in that collapse, you know, there’s some crappy things going on. There are bullies, you know, that are really setting the stage for where that culture is going. And we said to ourselves, you know, we want to stand up to that. We want the world to be better than it was. As we all hid from the world in the pandemic or as the U.S. administration becomes more Authoritarian. 

So we said, you know, if we could get everybody to sense community and to actually all believe in each other and want to work together to make the world better. Both Kat and I have kids, as you do, Mary, and we’re thinking, okay, climate crisis is coming, all this stuff is happening. What’s the world gonna look like in 50 years? It’s not going to be good for our kids, and we’re getting a little bit older. 

So we went, okay, we’re going to do something about this. We are going to do two things. We’re going to look micro and macro. We are going to look at the individual and we’re going to go, we want to make you present yourself to the world better so you’re more successful in life and so you add your voice to the community. Then when we get everybody, you know, overriding the bullies and we all pull together for our families, we get to change the world a little bit. You know, that’s our passion. And so for us, the challenge was how do we incorporate that in our little tiny podcast, right? That’s a big ask, isn’t it?

MARY: So what was the solution? What’d you come up with, Kat?

KAT: I think we just had to step into our own authenticity and just do it and not judge and not worry, and know and trust in ourselves and in each other that we had the right intention, that we have the right knowledge, that we have the right skills and just be who we are and just do it. Because we can talk about it and talk about it and fantasize about it all we want. But until we, until we actually do it, then who are we to say, okay, here, Mary, learn this. And we’re not practicing it. 

So for us, it was a big leap of faith and also a trusting moment because we both had that self-judgment and critical questioning of ourselves. Do we really know what we’re doing and can we make an impact with our little podcast and our big idea? And we’re just walking the walk and we’re not thinking about what if we can’t? We’re thinking about the moment and who we want to talk to and who’s going to be fascinating and what kind of interesting conversations can we have? 

And that’s the fun aspect of all of this. The conversations that we have are so fantastic. You must feel that too, Mary, when you’re, when you’re talking to your guests, it’s. I just, I never want to stop talking because our conversations, we start with some ideas and they go all kinds of places that we never experienced. So it’s an adventure. That’s how I look at it.

KEVIN: Oh, and we’re back to death. See, this is where we started, Mary. [LAUGHTER] We started this whole podcast on death. But seriously, you know, Kat and I can go, well, who are we? We’re nobody. Why would we have an impact in the world? Like, that’s just silly. But we are getting older, and we both have some skills, and we went, how much time do we have left? 

We only have so much time left. That’s a great motivator. You know, you get out of your head of going, well, who am I? And blah, blah, blah, and you just go for it. You just, I want to make this difference for my kids. I’m just going to dive in. And you got to stop comparing yourself to other podcasters or other famous people. No, I’m just this is what I want to do, and you have.

KAT: To have that faith in yourself. You do have something to say. We do have something to share. We do have an idea of where we want to go. We’re dreamers, we’re visionaries, and we come from education, which means giving and helping. And this has just been an incredible journey. Like Kevin said, we’re closer to death than not, so get on it.

KEVIN: And build your connections. Look, Mary, you know, we worked with you 25 years ago, but we built a connection, right? And here we are today, still connected and still trying to work together. That’s beautiful.

KAT: It’s a joy. It’s so wonderful to be doing this with you.

MARY: Technology is amazing, where we are at, and I’m glad I didn’t make you guys like, record it on a cassette tape and then mail it to me. [LAUGHTER]

You know, as we were saying, technology’s changed a lot. Broadcasting and podcasting, everything is evolving and changing all the time. As we’re getting closer to the end of our little conversation here. I’m coming to the death of this conversation here. [LAUGHTER] Oh, my god… 

KEVIN: There’s a theme there. 

MARY: …Huh. Let’s center ourselves in the very present day as we are recording this mid-September 2025. What excites you about podcasting? And maybe, Kat, we’ll start with you.

KAT: I think I said it earlier. I love people. I love talking to people. I love the conversations that we have. I love the adventure of the conversation. I don’t know where it’s going. I honestly don’t know what question I’m going to ask. I’m listening. I want to jump in and say, okay, you know, let’s go here with that idea. And Kevin and I challenge, you know, each other with those ideas. And we’re a good combo when it comes to working with guests. We listen to each other, we’re besties. 

So, I kind of know what Kevin thinks sometimes, not all the time. [LAUGHTER] And to me, it’s an opportunity to connect with a really cool guest, to connect with our audience and then really leave that impression. How can we help somebody look internally and find a way to make their world and other worlds a better place? And that to me is really important. And that feeds my soul.

KEVIN: I’m honoured to work with Kat and we’ve done so much together in life and this is a beautiful expression that we’re on right now. We’ve worked around the world, you know, doing this in different capacities and we love people like Kat said. And in all this work with thousands of people here and around the world, we’ve learned people aren’t that different. You know, people are wonderful beings and we all deserve the right to speak. 

And there are, you know, there are some forces in life that want to shut us down and we’re against that. We want to empower people. We believe in people. And it’s to be able to do this and love people and work with people the way we can, it’s a miracle. It’s wonderful.

MARY: That is such a beautiful note to end on. So, Kat and Kevin, thank you so much for being present with me and, you know, replying to my silly little email that I sent out. [LAUGHTER] Do you remember me?

KAT: Of course we remember you.

MARY: Thank you, thank you.

KAT: Thank you. What a joy.

KEVIN: Thanks for reaching out. It was great to connect again.

[MUSIC IN]

MARY: Death, I did not think we were gonna go there. You know, as they said, it’s not something that we talk about all the time, right? It feels very taboo though, we should be talking about death because it is part of our life cycle and what happens. Death happens all the time, whether we like it or not. I think something that I totally glossed over when I was in their classroom as that young 19 year old student, right? When I was 19, I could not grasp what death meant. I was still figuring it out. I had my whole life ahead of me. But yeah, 25 plus years later, it’s really interesting to connect the dots from my past with this conversation. 

And you know, I even did a double take at one point when Kevin said, “stop thinking about yourself”. Because I actually titled an episode exactly that episode number 50, Stop Thinking About Yourself. And a listener told me the other day actually that she listened specifically to that one because the title resonated with her. And I think that’s because so many of us in the podcasting space, you’re always thinking about, what can I do for the podcast? What shall I focus on? What can I talk about? And we forget that we are actually creating a show for the listener. So it’s not about you. Go and listen to episode number 50 if you haven’t yet, and we can reflect a bit more on that in that episode, okay? 

So for this one, my question to you is, what do you remember about the first time someone said something about your voice? Now, it doesn’t have to be in a formal setting like I was in radio school. It can even go further back than that, right? I have moments I remember from when I was really, really young. So be curious, wonder about how these experiences have shaped our mental and figurative voice, right? It’s things that I’ve learned with Kevin and Kat way back when, still hold strong and true today, and how I present myself with my voice. So what is holding you back because of that memory, that first time someone said something about you and your voice? How can you let go of some of that so that your voice can serve you more fully today? 

Leave me a voice note with your thoughts. I’d love to hear them. You can head on over to my website. There’s a purple button. Click on that. It says send voicemail and share your voice. Or if you’re a Spotify listener, I actually like to leave comments over there now, too. So I’d love to see your note over there too. If you want to leave me me a note about this episode on Spotify. 

But you know what one of the best ways to share your voice, my voice, the things that we are talking about all the time on this show? If you have a podcasting friend that needs to hear this episode, text them the link that you’re listening on your device. Go, hit the share button, text it to them. As Kat and Kevin said, we’re here to make meaningful impact, and you too can do that by sharing this over a text to one person and we can make that impact one person at a time. So thanks again to Kat and Kevin for being on the show, and thank you for listening. 

On the next episode, I want to dive more into this idea of fear that we touched on today, especially that fear of judgment from others. Like I said, Spotify has a new place to add comments, right? There’s a judgment that’s coming our way from their YouTube already. A treasure trove of this, whether good or bad, you know the trolls that are out there. And of course, like I said, social media is full of comments as well, so there’s no shortage of judgment from others. And we do have fear that comes from all of that. So I’ll be looking at how to handle feedback and what it actually means for your podcast and how we can use it to grow your show. So I’ll catch you then on the next episode.

[MUSIC ENDS]

<< OUTRO – SHOW CLOSE // MUSIC IN – GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS >>

MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the podcaster’s guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I’d love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

<< WOMAN SINGS: Let’s go >>

<< MUSIC ENDS >>