Filler Words: Authentically Human or Unprofessional? – Episode 116

[MUSIC IN – GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS]

MARY: When I first started into the world of podcast editing, that was in 2018. And during that time, podcasting was still new-ish. And there was a definite push for removing almost all of your ums and ahs, also known as filler words, the phrases that fill in spots of thinking like, umm, you know, that stuff they’re, what people were saying filler, and that you weren’t sounding professional, quote unquote, because you sounded like you didn’t know what you were talking about. 

This approach, though, understandable, I kind of get where they’re coming from because it’s been drilled into our heads for generations on how we should quote, unquote, “should” be speaking in front of people. It still has a foothold in our heads and in the industry especially anything to do with media or talking on stage and basically speaking in front of anybody. And so we’re also seeing in the big podcasting creation platforms that they have these magic buttons that you can easily wipe away and erase your filler words all with a click of a button. Isn’t that magical? Isn’t that going to be amazing that you can do this? Basically telling you and everybody that filler words are bad and they get in the way of recordings. Found that one on one of those big podcasting creation platforms. 

But come on. What these companies are not telling you is that it’s also erasing the human side to podcasting. What if deleting all your ums and likes and uhs [SING SONG VOICE], might actually make you sound less authentic? On today’s episode, we’re going to explore the problem with perfection and how we can connect more with our listeners through relatable ways of speaking and what credibility actually means in the world of professionalism on podcasts. We’re going to get into the little nitty gritty bits of how to think like a podcast editor. 

This is episode 116 on the Podcaster’s Guide to a Visible Voice.

<< WOMAN SINGS: So so so so let’s go >>

Hey, thanks for listening to the show. This episode was inspired by 

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when I took a look back at my podcast, like I always tell you to do as well, right? Looking beyond the numbers. And this time I was looking at numbers from my website. Which episodes had the most inquiries? What have I been doing differently that’s been working, that is gaining traction on my website, analyzing and getting insights, but also helping me to spark more episode ideas like this one. 

So one of the episodes that really stood out to me, and it has been for the last few years really, was episode number 18. It was published back in February of 2021, it’s an oldie but a goodie. And to this day, still one of the most sought after episodes from this very show. The idea that the word like and other filler words are a bad thing. 

This episode you definitely have to go back to listen to if you haven’t yet, is with Dr. Alexandra D’Arcy. And what she says in this episode is still on hundred percent relevant today. And I’m sure since you’re listening to this in the future, it is also relevant for you now in this very moment, I’m pretty sure, because it’s going to take a while before we all realize that filler words is not such a bad thing. It’ll take a few more generations to clear that one up. 

So I was chatting with her in that very episode that really cemented this idea that I had circling around for, oh, probably decades actually, because I had been working in the radio industry for almost 20 years at that point. And in radio I worked so much with voices because I was the producer, I created the commercials and I would coach voices. And previous to my radio career, I was also growing up in a world where I heard them all being a Chinese Canadian girl. You talk too fast. Oh, you have such a cute sounding voice. Or ooh, you need to lower your voice if you want to sound professional. Or why do you sound so high pitched? Or no one will listen to you if you talk like that. Stop using like so much. You sound stupid.

Yeah, those were all said to me in one form or another and a lot more. I’m sure those were the only ones that I could think of right now to rattle off the top of my head. And yet the way you sound, how you speak, all of this stuff is not created equal. Filler words, especially from an industry that has so much pressure on the voice. Filler words are not something where we need AI tools to get rid of and to quickly edit out because they are a human, natural speech pattern. Why are we erasing our humanity? Yet, as Dr. D’Arcy explains in the episode, overediting also creates a disconnect with your listener. Not all filler words are bad and they each actually have a job. So how do we as podcasters walk that fine line of professionalism and a great sounding show? 

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There’s been a shift in the industry in the past couple years, I would say, where people are actually swinging the other way around. They want more spontaneity. They want to sound quote, unquote “natural”. They don’t want to over edit. That’s great. I’m actually all for that. But then they forget about the listener experience if there’s too much space or distraction in between. You know, some of this natural stuff that comes up when you’re in a conversation in a coffee shop isn’t exactly enticing to hear on a podcast. So people will tune out and not come back. 

There’s a balance in creating a show that has a human connection and yet still doesn’t sound distracting. I’ve been asked this many times before because I’ve shared this way of audio editing for a while now, especially in the podcasting industry. And there’s like, some up and coming podcast editors are always like, but how do you do that? How do you create that balance? How do you decide what to keep or what to get rid of? And, you know, if they’re not all bad, then don’t you just keep them all? Or wouldn’t it just be faster and easier if we could just use that AI tool and do that click of a button? 

But really, to answer all of these questions is really about how do you want your show to sound in the end. It’s that human approach, the listening that we do as a podcast editor, that AI tools will never be able to do. It’s in listening to that context. It’s in listening to the emotional tone of someone’s voice when they are saying, um, not all ums are the same. And yes, okay, some of these AI tools are not too bad in selecting types of filler words, I guess. Like, it gives you some autonomy on certain words or phrases that you want to get rid of or not get rid of. But even then, when you do click on that button, the AI tools aren’t great at picking up natural pacing or breathing patterns, or they’re even cutting off parts of your breath. So you still have to go in there and fine tune everything so it still sounds, quote, unquote, “natural”, right?

Okay, so this might sound very overwhelming, like, okay, then how do you choose? Okay, we are human. We’re using our brains. How are we deciphering what to keep, what not to keep? That is the big question. Well, really, the first thing I would do is to find out the podcast’s ideal listener. Seriously, I talk about this so much. Your ideal listener, and it is very, very true. So this episode isn’t just for podcast editors. It’s for you creating your own show. And if you’re listening to someone else’s work who’s editing it for you, you also need to know what you’re listening for, right? So this episode is for all podcasters who are figuring out this whole filler word, natural conversation, podcast editing deal and how much time you actually want to spend doing this too. 

So you either do it all yourself or you hire it out. And then what are you listening for anyway, going back to your ideal listener, the core foundation I always talk about, and it works for this scenario as well. I need to know who the ideal listener is so that I can understand how much of this needs to be either very friendly coffee shop type of a conversation versus it’s part of a business, maybe thought leadership type things, or you want a more authoritative feel. Depending on your ideal listener, you will edit your show very differently. And that’s the initial start. Really that’s all it takes is figuring out who is your ideal listener, how do they want to listen to the show, how are they going to be considered consuming and feeling along with you? 

Though remember those two versions that I gave you? That friendly coffee shop type conversation, which is quote, unquote, “more natural” versus the business thought leadership, authoritative feel. It’s not this or that, right? It’s not black and white. You still can be a leader in your industry with your podcast, but still have a conversational style. So it’s knowing who your show is for and that’s how you’re going to present it. That’s how you’re going to be editing the show. 

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The next thing I would say is to start listening in general, like to everything, anything, everyone and everything that basically aren’t podcasts, because as we know, these can be overly edited. So I’m thinking about if you’re in a coffee shop, listen in on conversations. And I’m not talking about, like, being creepy and spying and figuring out what someone is actually saying, but for how they say things. How does a banter go back and forth? What is that pacing like? What are those emotional things that they’re doing with their voice? 

Listen and watch the news perhaps is another one. The news is a perfect blend because the anchor, the person who’s reading the news to you, is the professional piece, right? They’re reading a teleprompter. Things are scripted, but it’s the clips and interviews of real people that have that human connection piece. So listen to those interviews. When are they saying, um, or ah, or are there instances where there’s a bigger pause? Or are they injecting their speech with those words? Like, ummm, like for a, uh, softening, right? They don’t want to be authoritative. They want to show it’s an example of something. 

This is where my editing brain comes in. You can’t isolate one word like those AI tools are doing. Isolating one word without knowing the context around it can be a detriment. Sometimes I would say if there is a big pause with an um, I might take it out because the person’s actually just thinking about what to say next and they’re rephrasing in their mind. But if it’s part of the bigger emotional train of thought, then we need to keep the pause in. We need the breath, the inhale, and the to highlight that this is a big emotional thing. 

A great example was recently I was working on a podcast episode talking about caregiving and had an interview with a death doula. If you were going to edit out all the pauses and long sighs and and ums, the emotional weight of the episode would be lost. The listener may feel like it sounds more clinical, you know, because you don’t have the [SIGH and PAUSE] oh, yeah and then, you know, this happened. And um, then that happened with my mom and my dad, just oh, um, and dad didn’t really, you know, like you’re, you’re thinking as you’re speaking on this very emotional subject that A, is hard to edit smoothly and B, if you do take it out, all of it out, it does sound very clinical. So clinical could be good though, right? Like who is your intended audience? 

So it always comes back to your listener, no matter how you want to do your editing. Because sometimes you might want to have the emotional ties. I would say most of the time you would, but there are circumstances where you don’t want that emotional tie and you just need the facts. So, think about your ideal listener and how do they want to feel in this instance? 

[THOUGHTFUL MUSIC WITH XYLOPHONE IN]

And finding that balance takes time, right? I’ve mentioned it before, lots. I have worked with voices and audio for over 20 years. I felt like I had to relearn a lot of my audio editing skills for podcast editing because it’s very different from the work I was doing in radio. And so it does take time to learn those skills and listen for that nuance. And especially for those who are looking for more natural sounding conversations, if that’s the case, I’d say those are actually harder to edit because you do want to do some editing, like I said, people want to get to the point of the episode and hear the conversation and not have any distractions. So it is a harder edit to make, believe it or not. 

So when you’re starting out, I would say start with less, less editing than you think. So probably what you’re doing now, if that’s what you are doing. If you’re just like, you know what? I just want to trim the beginning and the end and maybe a couple hiccups in the middle, that’s great. Start with that. But remember, you need to listen to the episode after it’s published as well, not while you’re just editing. You need to be in a different frame of mind. A frame of mind of the listener. So listen back to each and every episode, because the more you listen, the more you’ll hear the intentions behind the words and the emotions that come along with all the words that people say. 

It no longer becomes subconscious, right? Like, we don’t think about a lot of these things that are happening when we’re talking to someone, but as a podcaster, it will become more forefront and you’re aware of these things, so you’ll understand the difference between an ah and an ummm, and maybe where “like” needs to go, like, there. Filler words aren’t imperfections. Filler words are part of everyday speech that isn’t performative or scripted. It’s part of our everyday conversations. 

So this isn’t something that AI can do well. They can’t figure out what needs to stay and what can go. And that’s why podcasting is still a great way to connect emotionally. Because, honestly, the majority of the podcasts out there aren’t edited very much because they’re independently owned. We don’t have a lot of time. We probably all have day jobs. So the most popular ones are the ones that are edited. And I bet if you listen to the ones that aren’t as popular that the ones that the apps aren’t, you know, suggesting for you the top 100 shows or whatever, dig deeper, find those other ones, because they’re gonna be like you. They’re gonna be the ones where they want to sound professional, quote, unquote. They want to sound smooth and polished, but they also want to sound natural and real. And my other dreaded word, authentic. That is what people are, and I think it just means people want to sound human. 

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So what is your show style, and how does your ideal listener play a part in the way you edit the show? Filler words are not tools. They are not enemies. They are a part of you. You grew up with this way of speaking. It is a part of you. It is a very humanistic, emotional approach, and it’s not something that we should all get rid of with a magic click of a button. They are something that evolves and needs context 

Again, I recommend you actually go back to listen to episode 18 with Dr. Alexandra D’Arcy. We definitely will add it to the show notes because this episode blew my mind. Essentially. It just went, oh, my gosh, this is everything that I’ve been thinking about for a very long time. And she explains it so well. For someone who isn’t like a university, I’m not a university person. I never went to university. So, like, it was, it was great to hear it from her point of view, being a university professor or a linguist. But definitely listen to that so you can hear more in detail why it’s so important to use filler words and not take them all out. 

So share what you’ve noticed about your own speech patterns with me. I’d love to hear it. What have you noticed? Again, not for judgment. This is just the way we speak, right? So when you’re talking about your voice, I just want you to be curious about what you want to keep, what you love and what you want to leave behind. What is something that, for your own personal reasons, right, not just because of other people have said to you, but what do you, you, uh, want to leave behind that isn’t working for you? Not because an AI editing tool says you should? What do you want to shift away from? Okay, share your thoughts on this episode with me. There’s so much more I can get into, but really listen to, um, Dr. Alexandra D’Arcy. That’s the best companion episode for this one. 

Anyway, leave me a voice note from my website, VisibleVoicePodcast.com or send me an email, visiblevoicepodcast@gmail.com and let me know. What do you want to keep about your voice? What do you love, and what do you want to leave behind? 

[RHYTHMIC CLAPPING BEGINS]

On the next episode, we’re reflecting on a podcast that in my mind, was a huge success in creating community and connection, especially in a time when we needed it most. It was COVID. Need I say more? Yet today, the podcast is still on pause, and I say pause because you never know, right, if it will come back. So there’s lots to learn from. From that journey, from the very beginnings of an idea to the huge explosion, and then where we are now. 

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So we chat with Jerry Won, host of the award winning podcast, Dear Asian Americans, like many podcasters like you, you start with that humble idea, right? That spark. I want to talk about this. What if we shared stories from people who looked like me? What if we normalize what it’s like being someone who walks those different lanes in their cultural lives? Like, for me, you know, one foot in North America and the other in my Chinese, Hong Kong culture of my parents. 

And then what if the podcast gained huge attention, like the vice president, Kamala Harris at that time? And then what happens when it becomes all too much? Jerry gets personal on this walk down memory lane, but also shows you how the power of podcasting is really to share stories so that you can connect with people and make the world, especially at that time, just a little smaller. 

And you know what I say at that time, but still today, we all feel so isolated sometimes because of the digital age we’re in. But podcasting can change that. And I love how he reflects on his podcasting journey. So you might want to bring some tissues for this one. Okay. I’m not usually a crier, but just letting you know, we get into some of those emotional impacts that I talk about a lot in this episode about filler words. So listen for that. Anyway, that’s next time on the show we’ll have Dear Asian Americans host Jerry Won.

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<< GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS >>

MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster’s Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I’d love it if you shared it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to visiblevoicepodcast.com.

<< WOMAN SINGS: Let’s go >>

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