How well do you know your ideal podcast listener?

If you can figure out—like, really, deeply identify—the purpose of your podcast and who you’re creating it for, you’ll discover the huge impact this can have on your show’s success; it helps make every part super cohesive, from selecting your guests and topics, to reaching your ideal audience, to achieving personal growth along the way.

Multi-hyphenate entrepreneur Shobna Kannusamy has experienced all these benefits firsthand while creating her podcast, Colour Me Brave, where she amplifies the voices of women of colour through conversations that dive into their diverse experiences with identity, culture, and connection.

In this episode, Shobna explains how getting really deep into determining her show’s purpose has fostered the safe space she set out to establish for the women she speaks with, her podcast listeners, and herself. She shares her experience of building out a super tangible, relatable, and complex ideal listener and the ways this has helped her leave the fear of judgment behind to focus on authenticity and impact in her newest passion project.

Consider how your own identity and culture influence your show as we explore:

  • The impact your values and personal experiences have on your podcast voice
  • How creating a strong ideal listener profile is directly connected to a stronger podcast and audience
  • Navigating your fears and expectations around creating your show
  • Why you can stop worrying so much about how many people are listening

Links worth mentioning from the episode:

Engage with Shobna:

Connect with Mary!

Podcast cover art by Emily Johnston of Artio Design Co.

Transcript with audio description:

[MUSIC IN]

CLIP – SHOBNA: Because you’re always told you either laugh too loud or talk too much or talk too little or don’t do that, don’t do this, do that this way. That’s the correct way. And so it’s very difficult for you to find out how you actually want to do it and be curious about that and be okay to experiment.

[MUSIC OUT // PAUSE A BEAT // INTRO]

<< Ghosthood Featuring Sara Azriel “Let’s Go” BEGINS >>

MARY: Welcome to the Podcaster’s Guide to a Visible Voice.

<< WOMAN SINGS: Let’s go >>

MARY: Reveal and define your voice to speak your truth through the power of podcasting. And I’m your host, Mary Chan.

<< WOMAN SINGS: So so so so let’s go >>

MARY: Hello, and welcome to episode number sixty-eight. Find your purpose and impact with podcasting with Shobna Kannusamy.

[INTRO MUSIC OUT/ MUSIC IN]

Whether you are creating a podcast for your business, to showcase a brand, or it’s just a hobby passion project, in order to create whatever you call success for your podcast, you need a good foundation. And when going through this foundational work, it is also about going inside of yourself to figure out what is your identity, what are your values, and how will this change and evolve over time as you podcast, as a podcast host, your voice is heard out into the world. So you might have some fears of, what do I have to overcome? Is this acceptable to say, or not? What are my values around XYZ? So, having a podcast is essentially some personal development at the same time. And your podcasting values, believe it or not, are also very aligned, uh, with your own personal values. 

Today, you are going to meet Shobna Kannusamy, who launched her passion project of a podcast called Colour Me Brave. This is where we connect, explore, and celebrate the intricate journeys of women of color who value authenticity and confidence. She’s got candid conversations with amazing entrepreneurs and changemakers from diverse backgrounds in our community and beyond. Shobna and I actually worked on her podcast together. And you know what? She found me through Google. Just randomly googled me. You’ll hear the story on the show. But, it was the fact that we have this shared passion for supporting women of color to amplify their voice and to make sure that our voices get heard as well. 

And you’ll hear in this episode how she had to overcome her own personal fears about objections of what was acceptable to say or not to say, and overcome those judgmental fears from her family and knowing that there was a way around it. Finding her ideal listener in Kumari you definitely want to listen to this episode. If you want to hone in further on your own ideal listener for your podcast, you’ll hear all the intricate details that she goes into in creating this persona of Kumari for her show. We also talk a bit about parenting values just because we are on that parenting journey as well. And yes, all of this ties into, how you become a successful podcast host, in sharing your values and what you have to say, goes hand in hand with parenting sometimes. 

So, you know, having your own podcast is really a great way to facilitate personal development in all aspects of your life. Believe me. Believe Shobna. Listen to this episode and you’ll hear all about it and how Shobna is so intentional in this passion project of hers, of her podcast. And as you’ll hear on the episode, I was really shocked and surprised. My own impostor syndrome when her email landed in my inbox, because I felt like, what is a person of her stature doing emailing me? Yeah, we all have that negative little gremlin pop up every now and then, but I love that Shobna connected with me through my website and just took that leap to create Colour Me Brave. Where in her first season she is sharing a lot of stories of the people in her network because she is a certified entrepreneur and leadership coach and multicultural immigrant woman who has been challenging the, quote unquote, right way of doing things since she could talk. 

Shobna is also a professional engineer, being the good Asian kid, did the engineering degree, turned pastry chef, and ran her boutique pastry shop for ten years in downtown Vancouver, and also became a judge on the Food Network’s Wall of Bakers. So make sure you follow her podcast. Colour Me Brave propelling you to live your life in color and freedom. Enjoy the show.

[MUSIC ENDS]

MARY: Shobna, I am so glad that we get to connect again and talk about your podcast. So thank you so much for coming on the show.

SHOBNA: This is incredible. Thank you for having me. It’s been a while since I’ve, uh, connected with you, and thanks for this opportunity. It’s, um, great to be here.

MARY: Yeah. I always find this is such a great way to just reflect on what you’ve worked on, you know, through six to seven months since you launched the podcast. You’ve been a Podcaster with a capital P, for that long.

SHOBNA: Uh, maybe the idea was six to seven months, but we literally had such a tight timeline, because I knew that I wouldn’t do it otherwise. I think we launched at the end of May, so it’s only been, I suppose, yeah, five months. Hey?

MARY: Yeah, that’s quite a bit of time. So why did you believe that a podcast was the next step for your business?

SHOBNA: That’s an interesting question. The podcast was actually not really a next step for my business, per se, but it was the next step in my journey of empowering women of color. So I think there’s a two pronged approach there. One was the fact that I do coach women of color in business, emerging leadership, spaces like that. But, I think the podcast was more about me amplifying voices to be a part of a community, to create a sense of connection and belonging, which I thought was still lacking in a little bit, in this space. And I thought, what better way to connect everyone that I admire and have in my network to get them to share their stories, their journeys of both entrepreneurship, parenthood, and just what it’s like to navigate the world we live in at this point as a woman of color. So I think that was what my drive was to start the podcast. And then I thought, oh, podcast not so scary because I don’t actually have to be visual. And I looked it up and I researched. I was like, all you really need is a microphone and a pair of headphones and you’re kind of good to go. So. But then I didn’t know about all the other complexities. Then I was like, okay, I got to find somebody. But I thought that that was a good avenue for me to just be in, to try and figure out what I could do to have an impact on women like me who are maybe just a few years younger and just trying to get into a space and a community of belonging, knowing that they’re not alone.

MARY: I see so much strength in learning about different cultures or even like, nurturing my own culture, my Chinese heritage, and showcasing my husband’s side of things too. He’s, his dad is Ukrainian. And so my daughter is this multicultural blend. And I always say to her, having more than one identity or evolving your identities over the years really is a strong thing. It’s a great thing to have. So that the, you know, Canadian, Chinese, Ukrainian side of her. She doesn’t have to choose just one. And so with you too, you Canadian, Kiwi, Malaysian, South Indian heritage, all of those intersections. What aspects about your culture or identity has been a real strong suit for you in the whole podcasting journey?

SHOBNA: I wasn’t prepared for you to say strong suit .

MARY: Exactly, because people always think it’s not a strength, but really, it can be.

SHOBNA: It can be. And I think one of my friends who said this to me and at that time I resisted it because I was doing so much work in trying to identify who the heck I was. And this was when I actually told them. I was like, oh, hey, I’m going to start a podcast. And this is for people who struggle with identity, blah, blah, blah. And she said, you know, my identity is pretty fluid. And I said, what does that mean? Now I think I get it. My identity is also fluid, though. I know what my values are as a person. So I think my values play a very strong part in how I present my identity. Because one of my values is authenticity as well. So I know now that in any space I am if I’m not being true to who I am, that is not my identity. As you said, my, my identity is also very muddled. I am second generation Malaysian Indian. We moved to New Zealand so I have a whole part of me that has like, a Kiwi heritage. Then we moved to Canada. My husband’s from Mumbai. He then moved to Trinidad and Tobago, and then he moved to New Zealand. So we have all these different environments of upbringing that we have experienced. And then we bring this in. And now my kids like, who am I? And I said, you’re everything. You’re all of it. To answer your question, that is the strong suit. The strong suit is that we have the privilege and the fortune of having so many lenses growing up. We have experienced so many different ways of being in different communities and in different cultures that it really helps me identify with and be at ease with anything that’s new because I approach it with this lens of curiosity.

MARY: So, podcasting is new. So what lens of curiosity did you bring with you for that?

SHOBNA: The lens here for me was literally to bring out voices whom I thought I would love to amplify. In doing that, giving those who are listening the courage to dream, to connect, to belong, to pursue, to grow and to influence them in a way that they are going to be able to free themselves of, you know, whatever insecurities that they are holding back and release themselves from the fear of judgment from others. I suppose with the podcast, I mean, my main aim was to address it for my audience. Uh, they’re mostly women of color. And some of the underlying nuances that we go through in life are very similar. And so I think this was a space for them to be heard and listened to and feel that they’re being seen without any fear of judgment.

MARY: Oh, yeah, because we have so many of those fears come up about your voice. What you say. Is this good enough? Will they care? All of these things come from the way we were brought up. 

SHOBNA: Absolutely. Right! 

MARY: Are we even allowed to say anything at all? Because I was told to shut up and not say anything.

SHOBNA: There you go. Yes, I said a lot of things and was still told to shut up. So your voices are going to be suppressed no matter what. And I think that really helps me figure out how I parent. I think I talk about this all the time. That a lot of the things that I saw growing up. And now I realize as a kid what that made me feel like. I’m really cognizant of that when I parent my kid. So if he has an opinion, if he wants to say something, the last thing I’m going to tell him is to shut up and say, because I said so. I really do believe that that is one of the biggest reasons that we felt well, I felt that I didn’t have a safe space to express myself.

MARY: So you’re creating that safe space now.

SHOBNA: I’m, I’m trying. [LAUGHTER]

MARY: So we touched on fears a little bit, though. What were some of those fears for you when you now realize I have this microphone in front of my face. What fears come up for you about that?

SHOBNA: One of the biggest fears, I suppose, was trying to figure out how I was going to say what I wanted to say. I thought I needed to figure out what was acceptable, what was not. So for me to have been able to overcome that, I realized that I really needed to be comfortable with the discomfort of knowing that I would have my aunties listen into this. Right. Like  would have, like, my relatives who live very far away, but they’d still all be listening and judging and saying all the things that they want to say. But at the end of the day, I know that they’re family, they love me, and they’re all entitled to their opinions. But I really felt that, that was the one thing that was maybe holding me back. But I also think that I got over it very quickly. 

[LAUGHTER]

MARY: How’s that? No?.

SHOBNA: How did I get over that? I think at one point I just went like, screw it, I don’t care. Because this is not for them. This is for my community that I feel is going to benefit from hearing what it would be like to live their lives in color and freedom. So I brought all these people on. And also sometimes I did solo episodes where I thought that they would benefit from understanding, like having a deeper understanding of what it would be like to really release from some of these preconditioned judgments and notions that they have from, you know, it’s all subconscious. Like it was all just of how you got brought up. This just kind of helps us grow. I think growth, personal development is so important. And if you are the same person you were ten years ago, I’d really encourage you to reflect and have a look to see why that is and what that’s like. Because growth is essential for us

MARY: So, We’re not stuck and stagnant.

SHOBNA: Yes, it’s also a space for us to experience new things and in a new way and in new context and to welcome all these experiences with open hearts and in a space of free of judgment. And I think that happens with growth.

MARY: Earlier you had mentioned you were creating this podcast and it wasn’t for them, it wasn’t for your aunties. And I think one of those things was we were working together on the foundations of your podcast and talking about your ideal listener. And that is exactly who your podcast is for. It’s for your ideal listener, not for your aunties, not for the relatives. You named this person Kumari.

SHOBNA: I did.

MARY: Go back in time to when that happened. Describe for me now, who is this person.

SHOBNA: Kumari is this strong woman. She’s a career woman, either owning her own business or in the corporate world or anything. She does have a desire to have a career. She’s also a mom, and she comes from a background that carries a lot of complexities of culture and traditions. So she struggles a little bit with her identity, how you know, what spaces she belongs in, and she’s always seeking for connection, like true connection. She’s also very hesitant to show the world her true self. She’s afraid of judgment. So in thinking of her, I was thinking about, what can I say, what can I do to talk to her and tell her that she doesn’t have to carry this guilt from all these failed expectations that she has gone through. 

I wanted her to express herself and be free and live her life without all these judgments and all these expectations holding her back. And also for her not to think that she has to fit in any box. I think that was really important for me. I mean I know I called my aunties a lot. It’s actually my aunties, my uncles, my mom, my late dad, my brother, all of them. These relatives sometimes can really get overwhelming and cloud your own growth in finding out who you truly are and being okay with that. Because you’re always told you either laugh too loud or talk too much or talk too little or don’t do that, don’t do this, do that this way. That’s the correct way. And so it’s very difficult for you to find out how you actually want to do it and be curious about that and be okay to experiment. So these were the fears that Kumari was having in her, I think. So my sense of creating this podcast for her was to help her with the need for a deeper connection and belonging by sharing these stories and sharing these experiences of all of us who come from muddled waters of culture and identity. And sometimes a lot them, a lot of us are immigrants. It’s that whole balance of do you assimilate or do you stand out? What’s your experience with that, you know, with being like a kid? And did you find yourself needing to assimilate or were you okay standing out?

MARY: Oh, it was always tough, right? It depended so much on the situation too. If I were at home with my family, I would try and be small and be a shadow, you know? Because I was always told to, yeah, stop making a spectacle out of the family here, we don’t want to be seen. Okay? So I was like, okay, I’m going to have that traditional Chinese upbringing, but only when I’m under this roof. And somewhere along the line, I just made that decision that whenever I left the house and I was with my friends or when I was at school, I would try to be more me and test those waters and feel what that’s like. It was hard as well, because especially in high school, so much judgment from people, and you’re always thinking about, oh, my friends might think this of me when honestly, they didn’t notice or could care less or whatever it is.

SHOBNA: Oh absolutely. But you still carry that perception, right?

MARY: Yeah, yeah, and so it was just rough to try and figure out, okay, can I be more of myself in this situation, or should I just conform with everybody else and do what everybody else is doing? But I think it wasn’t until I was really toward the end of my high school experience where I was just like, I am so done with this. I can’t wait to graduate so I don’t have to be a sheep and follow the herd and do whatever the heck I want and kind of start over. Because at that time, I had already decided I wanted to go to uh, radio school at BCIT. And so I knew nobody else in my class was going to go into radio school. So I was like, oh, I can just start fresh and reinvent myself.

SHOBNA: Yes.

MARY: So that way I didn’t have to do that fine line of, oh, I got to play this role, versus trying to be myself.

SHOBNA: It’s a very tricky part of being a young adult. At that point, during my puberty years, right, my teenage years, I do remember a lot of the things I did, and a lot of the actions I took was because I had the urge to people please. So I had to please my parents, I had to please my mom, although I didn’t do it very successfully. But the times that I did, I saw that they were happiest when I was doing exactly what they were saying. So I kind of understood that that was how it was going. Though there were times where I really rebelled against things I didn’t really understand. 

But leaving the house, like, I had an opportunity to go to boarding school in New Zealand when I was about 17. That, to me, was one of the greatest exhales I’ve ever had. Sure, I missed home, I missed cooking, home cooking, home life, and things like that, but I really felt that at that point, I could actually breathe and start figuring out who I actually was without all of these influences around me. It was, it came with its own challenges, don’t get me wrong, but I really felt a bit more seen, heard, and accepted as me. Rather than I’m so and so’s daughter or uh, so and so’s this living up to this expectation, living up to that expectation. It was all me. So I was responsible for my good behavior, my bad behavior, my ugly behavior. It all just came back on me. But then I was okay with that responsibility because I knew what I was doing. I don’t know. I’m pretty sure I did some really stupid things as well as being a teenager. Yes. 

MARY: As most kids of that age yup!

SHOBNA: So I did some very stupid things, things that I’m quite ashamed of, actually. And I’ve had to reconcile that within myself. But with all these learnings and trying to then immigrate again and like, keep moving on and being a mom now, like, there’s so much vulnerability in trying to figure out our own identity, where if you lean in and let go of these expectations, it then becomes fluid. And so how do I support Kumari’s growth, to encourage her in her own vulnerability, to tap into her power of being? And so the podcast was that, the podcast was to provide a safe space for her to think about what she can do, to reframe her own narratives, to align to her values, not her family’s values, not her parents values, right? But hers and hers alone, and then really realize their immense power. So I think that was what the premise of the podcast and of Kumari, like, that was my ideal listener.

MARY: I love Kumari like, your iteration of her has been one of my most favorite ideal listener creations from any of the clients that I have worked with. 

SHOBNA: Oh Mary, Thank you. 

MARY: Because you created so much detail in her, and I’m always trying to get my clients to get more detail so you can really picture the person and know the exact struggle down to the very intimate, vulnerable reasons. And you did that. And when you describe her, I can, I can picture her. I really can. And I resonate with her. And that’s how you are going to create more success for your podcast, because you know exactly who you’re talking to.

SHOBNA: Thanks Mary, you know, I really appreciate that encouragement, and I think it was you that encouraged me to do that, too, because when I submitted it to you, you said, yeah, that’s great, but tell me more. So that was when I said, you know what? Let me really just kind of get into the real root of why I’m doing what I’m doing. Because, again, this is a passion project. I don’t do it for, it’s just me. I did apply for a grant, but didn’t get it. So it’s just me. And I do it in my spare time. Which means what, exactly? Which means that this is the time that I have to spend that takes me away from my family. And so it needs to be intentional. So if it’s going to be a passion project that is intentional for me, I need to really hone in on exactly why I’m doing what I’m doing, and put out the best I can for it, because I’m very clear on the purpose. And the purpose here was to share all these lessons that she can do, to embrace her identity, stand up for herself, and feel the power and the impact of what kindness and self compassion can do and how to live and love unconditionally. Because sometimes women of color in particular, for me, it is actually very difficult for me to practice self compassion, to actually be compassionate towards yourself, like be kind towards yourself. It’s so easy for you to be kind to others. But when you have these either expectations or these things that you put on to yourself, it’s very difficult for you to give yourself a break.

MARY: Right? Yeah. Actually, that was one of the questions I wanted to ask you, too. What were some of these expectations that you created for yourself at the very start of the podcasting journey?

SHOBNA: I’m all about impact. So to me, I was like, if ten people listened to this, and they were moved somehow by it, that to me, was success. Because it’s more than zero.

MARY: Yes. You’ve changed one life.

SHOBNA: Yeah.

MARY: And that’s what I love about podcasting as well. Like, unlike YouTube, where you can hit play and then it just autoplays the next thing, but you’re not really paying attention. With podcasts, you, a listener has to be very intentional when they do hit play on your episode. So those ten people or 50 people or 150 people or downloads, those usually do equate to a listen. And podcast listeners do listen a lot longer. They listen to 75% of an episode versus, like, you know, was it a minute or less on a YouTube video?

SHOBNA: Yeah. But you know what else really helped me? Mary, you had a question that you posed to me saying, write down what will they be doing while they’re listening?

MARY: Mhmm, Yep.

SHOBNA: So I listen to podcasts, and most of the time I listen to them as I’m either taking a walk or in the car driving downtown. So while I was doing that, it really shaped how long some of the episodes could be. So I was trying to be like, definitely under an hour. Most of them are hitting around the 30 to 40 minute mark and some like 15 to 20 minutes. Right.

MARY: Yeah.

SHOBNA: So I picture Kamari like, she’s folding laundry or she’s like crafting or she’s going for a walk or you know, so it’s not something where these are spaces where she can actually reflect. So it’s not, you know, she’s going to go like, bungee jumping and putting on a podcast and go like, yeah, let’s go and talk about cultural identity, sense of belonging, you know, while I jump off this cliff.

[LAUGHTER]

MARY: I don’t think that could ever happen because you’re too busy going, I don’t.

SHOBNA: Know what Kumari is up to. Right? But this is what I picture for her. Right. So it’s either mid afternoon, you know, sometimes, um, over the weekend. And that was the other thing for me, too. You also asked, like, how often do you want to put this out? And to me, that kind of had Kumari in mind, but it also had me in mind. So I think that’s where the self compassion piece came in. You asked me about expectations, and that’s where I had to adjust my own expectations of myself, because if I could, I would totally put one out, like you know, twice a week. Let’s go. But again, this was a passion project for me. It was a project out of love and just trying to create something for people like me. How often could I actually do it and be consistent with it.

MARY: Yes, yeah

SHOBNA: That was a really good question to ask because I think that’s what I meant to about the instant gratification thing. Like, I want to do everything all at once all the time. Like that movie with Michelle Yeo, what’s it called? 

MARY: Everything Everywhere, everything all at once

SHOBNA: Like, yeah, that’s me. That’s me to a T, right? But sometimes you have to take a breath. And that’s where I practice self compassion going, okay, Shobna. So if you cannot do everything all at once all the time, what can you do? So that’s when I said, you know what? Every other Wednesday works for me because.

MARY: Yeah, that question was intentional for based on your own capacity. Because I’ve had people who said, oh, I’ve been told once a week I have to create content. I’m like, but do you?

SHOBNA: Do you? Yeah, exactly. Do you?

[LAUGHTER]

MARY: So, yeah, it is about capacity. And then I love how you’re phrasing it. That compassion, the self compassion, people don’t think about that as much in the podcasting world because they’re like, I got to crank out an episode every single week.

SHOBNA: It’s hard. No, Mary. But they don’t think about that in any world sometimes, 

MARY: yeah, yeah

SHOBNA: Because running my business for like a decade and now that I’m older, I think about that piece a lot because there was so much I did that sacrificed my own ability to perform the way I would have liked to. And a lot of that comes from self compassion because again, I said I was everything all at once, all the time. Like, let’s go. Yeah. I think in retrospect, it is really important for me to figure out what I can do in a way that is sustainable, rather than, oh, let’s put out everything and have a big impact and like, let’s go and let’s turn this into a YouTube series and let’s put ads on it and let’s like reach out. And that’s not it at all. So my intentions were very clear from the start, and I think that’s how I set up myself to enjoy it and to, you know, have this be a fun project for myself. So I used to craft, now I podcast

MARY: Which is now your craft.

SHOBNA: That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Five months and counting.

MARY: Okay, so as we begin to wrap up here, when I first got your inquiry in my inbox, you know, as most people do, you start googling people. You’re like, who is this person?

SHOBNA: Did you? Oh, my like, it’s like research.

MARY: Yes. Who am I going to be talking to? And I’m like, uh, a judge on the Food Network Canada’s Wall of Bakers. Like, what is this person calling me? What is going on here?

[LAUGHTER]

SHOBNA: Oh my gosh.

MARY: So relating now back to the podcast. I’m wondering, some people might think with that TV experience that you’ve had, did that support you or hinder you at all with being behind the mic now and hosting your own show, getting behind that microphone.

SHOBNA: Actually, no, that was much scarier, [LAUGHTER], because it was alive. I was jet lagged. That was me being thrown into  the deep end of a pond.

MARY: So, like, podcasting, then, is like, oh, that’s nothing.

SHOBNA: Podcasting, well, not nothing, but podcasting, however, think the difference here was that there I really was a persona of myself where I was there to enjoy the creations of others. I was there to see and experience what it was like being on a set with others. And we had so many other amazing judges. I met Lynn Crawford and you know, Anna Olsen, Stephanie Duong like all.

MARY: I grew up watching them. I know them.

SHOBNA: Yeah right? And so I couldn’t believe I think that was more of, like, a starstruck moment for me, too. I couldn’t believe the people I grew up kind of in my Canadian experience, watching. I was now sitting beside. So that was a different experience for me. It was also a huge kind of point in my life where it was almost validating my, my 20 year career, where I walked away from engineering to do this. Whereas podcasting for me, was really based on a year I spent reflecting for my second chapter. So this maybe, my third chapter. I’m a bit young to have a third chapter, but too old to have a second chapter. I don’t know where I belong. But, um, see, this is why I have the podcast. So I figure this out as I go 

MARY: Exactly.

SHOBNA: And as I talk to people, I’m like, I’m not only helping Kumari, I’m helping me. And I think I do say that a lot in my, like, you know, thank you for being here, but also just helping me on my journey, because it’s never ending. Podcasting to me, at that point, was something that I knew I could embrace without too much fear. And I also had you to help me do that. So I think when I, when I wrote to you, I also looked you up to say, like, okay, she’s a woman, woman of color owning her own business. She’s the one I want to work with! Because that’s what I do. I support women of color and those who own their business. And reading about your background and how you came about to own your business, I’m like, you’re going to get my money, so let’s see what we can do together. And it was magical. You really put me on a course to succeed, and we were so, I mean I was so organized with you next to me, and that was probably my fear. So that’s how I took care of it. I got you.

MARY: Thank you, I love that.

SHOBNA: That it’s true, because I think knowing that about myself as an entrepreneur, I’m very cognizant of what I can do and what I can’t. And so, as soon as I knew that this is something, it’s like accounting. I can’t do accounting. I have an accountant. Like, they take care of all the paperwork so CRA doesn’t have to call me ever.

MARY: Same thing with podcasting. Same thing here.

SHOBNA: I’m like, I got to launch. I have no time to figure out how. And Mary looks great. Let’s get her on the phone. [LAUGHTER] So, that’s how that happened. And I’m so happy I did, because I really don’t think I would have made my own deadline of launching during Canadian Asian Heritage Month. And we barely, we did it in under 30 days.

MARY: Yeah. Which I’m usually like. I like at least 30 days, but, okay, we’ll work with this, because I like this deadline. I like the reason for this crazy.

SHOBNA: Yeah. And you were like, why can if you can, I’m like, okay, let’s go. So it was challenging, but you, you really kind of kept me on track, and so I really appreciate that, Mary. It was really, what an experience working with you, because I think a lot of the things you got me to think about, that was the part of the success of the podcast. Because I don’t think I would have done that deep of a dive. Because I was so focused on launching in 30 days, I wouldn’t have given myself that amount of time to understand Kumari.

MARY: And now, you have Colour Me Brave, your show.

SHOBNA: Now we have Colour Me Brave, yeah.

MARY: And I love on your show that you do have, like, a dessert question at the end. So I wanted to ask you a dessert question. If podcasting was a dessert, what would it be and why? 

[LAUGHTER]

SHOBNA: Well, if podcasting was a dessert, I think it would be a moon cake.

MARY: Love moon cakes.

SHOBNA: Why is that? Because the flavors can be so simple or so complex. The variety that you can execute, with the way we executed them. The moon cakes that we made at the shop were, for me, legendary. Like, the way we created them together as a team, every year, we would come up with different flavors. I feel that’s how the podcast is, as well, and it marries so many identities to then become this one beautiful thing that you actually then share with everybody, you know, that you care about. So I think that’s what I relate to in terms of desserts and what this podcast is to me.

MARY: Oh, I love that. Yeahm because moon cakes are all about sharing, too. Like, once you have that product, you give it absolutely. You give it for appreciation for the people in your life.

SHOBNA: Exactly. 

MARY: Aw yay, All right, so to wrap up, what are you most excited about podcasting right now?

SHOBNA: Right now, I’m most excited about season two.

MARY: Woo!

SHOBNA: Yeah. So I think we are kind of wrapping up season one, approaching the end of the year, but it’s taught me so much, and so I’m really excited to be bringing in different perspectives and different guests on season two. And really, I just like the fact that it’s quite unexpected. Although there are a lot of themes that are running, you know, similarly underground with the guests that I have on. I do find that because of that, the message is clear. The message is getting very clear that, hey, you’re not alone. This is something that all of us go through and we can go through together and figure out how to break through together.

MARY: Yeah. Break that ceiling.

SHOBNA: Yes! And so I, I feel season two is going to be, yeah, quite the journey. And I can’t wait. I love growing with each episode. I love editing them. I love picking out little songs, and I just, I just love the process. And I think you were right. You said, you know, this is like, my new craft, and it’s a craft that I can do with under $10 a month, which is great.

MARY: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] And we’re talking finances again.

SHOBNA: Yeah. It is, hey, I can’t help it. But it’s a passion project for me. Right. And I’m just so happy that I’m able to do this the way I’m doing it without it deterring too much from my work, but it also ties into my work. I just love where it’s sitting right now. And I’m just, I’m so grateful that I took that leap and that I took it with you.

MARY: Shobna, thank you so much for that and for being on my show today.

SHOBNA: Yeah, thanks for having me, Mary. It was so fun.

[MUSIC IN]

MARY: Oh, I love, love her energy. Her laugh is so infectious. You know that part about her fear where, you know maybe ten people would listen? I hear that time and time again. In fact, one of my other clients said that the other day where she’s like, you know, if like, the three people that are listening, No, like we were saying, it is so amazing to see that a podcast can be so intimate and these people are actually hitting play, like, most of these downloads are being played and listened to because there is that act of hitting the play button, and that means there is a human behind that play button. There is someone that you can change their life with. So I’m so glad that Shobna went through the process with me, especially to form Kumari, her ideal listener. Following Kumari’s life path that Shobna created really helps her to lock into that passion piece of the project so she can, like Shobna says, because there are more than zero people listening, there is a life that you are changing with your show. 

So if you would love to dive deeper into your ideal listener, I do have a workbook that you can download. It’s on my website https://www.organizedsound.ca/ideallistener. Or of course, as always, the link will be in the show notes and on my website. However, if you want to dive even deeper and do this one on one work with me, I would love to have a chat with you. You can connect with me with a 30 minutes complementary strategy session. Again, all the links are in the show notes. 

So what was your connecting piece with this episode? Which part of her story resonated with you? I’d love to know because I resonated so much with her. I would love to hear your perspective of it. Leave me a voice note on my website, it’s the purple button that says Voicemail. You can click on that and record your voice note right from your phone. Or, as always, you can email me as well visiblevoicepodcast@gmail.com, I’d love to hear from you. So until next time, go plan your podcast. Go record the next episode. Remember, this is all an experiment because these are experiences and you can always grow from them from one episode to the next.

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MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster’s Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I’d love it if you shared it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to visiblevoicepodcast.com.

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