Start a Ripple Effect of Continuous Learning with Beth Cougler Blom – Episode 81

[MUSIC IN – GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS]

MARY:

Creating and launching your podcast is one thing, but maintaining it while enjoying the whole process is another beast altogether. So what does it take to keep going and stay grounded in your podcasting journey, so that it continues to be fun and not become another task on that to do list? Because then it just becomes overwork and that is not fun. 

My guest today is Beth Cougler Blom, who I’m just going to say right off the bat, she’s actually one of my clients. We first worked together on her audiobook Design To Engage: How To Create And Facilitate A Great Learning Experience For Any Group. So if you’re a facilitator, you need her book. In fact, I used it when I do workshops on podcasting or even for like, presentations that I do on voice. So I learned so much, and I wouldn’t even really call myself a facilitator in that professional sense. But her book was so, so helpful and instrumental in creating these little bits of facilitating that I do do in my work. 

Anyway, after working on her audiobook, the podcasting bug hit her. So we worked together through my one on one 12 week program to launch her podcast, and this was back in 2022, Facilitating On Purpose. That is her show, and I still edit her show today and, um, support her with everything that comes with being a podcast producer through her work on her foundations when building out her podcast. That’s how she landed on the title of her podcast, Facilitating On Purpose. 

Beth is the founder of BCB Learning, a company which crafts impactful learning experiences for organizations making a difference in the world. She has a deep passion for education, specializing in creating engaging workshops and transformative learning experiences, and helping others do the same. We genuinely enjoy working with each other and have become good friends as well. So I wanted to share her experience with you and how you can be a podcaster who also comes from a place of curiosity, growth with continuous learning, and strive to be a more inclusive podcaster. 

But before we get into the conversation, though, some quick housekeeping for you, I’d love to hear from you. I want some feedback. The show really is driven from your ideas and what I’m hearing in the podcasting space. So I’m doing a listener survey to learn more about you. This way I can create more episodes with you in mind. What do you want to hear more of? What are you challenged with in podcasting? And also, what can I improve on for my own show? You know, all that good stuff in a survey. And as a thank you for taking your time to share your thoughts. 

If you submit the survey which is anonymous. But if you do provide your contact info, you’ll have an entry to win one of my voice connection cards, a deck of 39 cards, which will give you some great voice prompts. Get yourself a little bit of a boost of compassion before you hit that record button. Plus, I will also throw in a complimentary 30 minute strategy session with me to talk all about podcasting, voice challenges you’re having right now, all of that good stuff, too. 

So, to get to the listener survey, go to visiblevoicepodcast.com/offers. That’s where I’ll have my link to the survey there. And you can fill that out. And good luck with winning that voice connection cards and the 30 minutes strategy session. I’m gonna have the survey up all through the summer and through my summer break. So when I’m back in September, that’s when I will do the draw.

All right, let’s get to the episode to learn how to deepen our craft of podcasting with Beth Cougler Blom. This is episode number 81 on The Podcaster’s Guide to a Visible Voice.

<< WOMAN SINGS: So so so so let’s go >> 

MARY: Beth, thank you so much for coming on the show.

[INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

I’m really excited to always connect with you because I love working with you.

BETH: I feel the same. Thanks, mary. I’m happy to be here.

MARY: As said in the intro, you’re my client, and so, you know, we launched your podcast together, and it’s been two years. So just, like, quickly, how does that feel?

BETH: It feels great. You know, when you start a podcast, you don’t really know what it is even that you’re getting into. But now that I’ve released, as of this recording, I’ve released 39 episodes. So, yeah, almost two full seasons. And it feels good.

MARY: Yeah. Nice. But I’m sure, you know, like you were saying, there’s always so much going on in your head about starting this podcast. And so the idea of a podcast always starts well before any tangible things start moving together to launch, this podcast. So, tell me about how those first ideas of a podcast came about for you.

BETH: I think some of it was around, well, probably a lot of it was around my own learning, because sometimes like, I have my own business in this field, and sometimes when you have client conversations, you can fall into the thing of having the same conversation a lot. And then it’s sometimes hard to make time for our own learning because we’re busy with client work and you know how it goes. 

And so I started thinking, if I remember back in the early days, about how a podcast might be able to help me continue my own learning in my field and just make sure I make time and space for that. And I knew that I could open up a whole international community of colleagues in the field as well that I could learn from. And so that was really exciting. And I think one of the biggest driving forces of starting the podcast.

MARY: Yeah, I remember we were talking about that when we were working together, how you wanted to meet all these people and just see if you can have like conversations with them, because it’s a lot easier to say, hey, I’d love to chat with you, I have a podcast, versus I’d love to chat with you and just feel like you’re taking up their time. It’s one of those coffee chats or whatever. 

So then, now that you’ve gone two years through this, what were some moments where you were a little hesitant to reach out to a guest, or was there a moment where you thought, oh, I’ll just reach out anyway and see if this person’s available and really surprised that you were able to have this great conversation with someone.

BETH: I think I still have that kind of nervousness around reaching out to certain people. There’s probably a few people that have written books in the field, or they’re more well known than some of the rest of us, and I’m still a little shy, I think, to reach out to those people. But maybe with 39 episodes under my belt and more, by the time this gets aired, I feel like I should just be more confident about that. 

Because everyone that I ask actually does say yes, because people love to talk about what they do. So it’s funny how we still have that kind of hesitation around reaching out to people. For sure, I should just get over it because there’s so many things that I just do and don’t worry about it. But connecting with people who are, quote unquote, a little bit more famous in the world is kind of funny, right? So, a little shy.

MARY: Well, it’s interesting, too, now, because I think some people might say that about you because, you know, you’re the one with this podcast, and it’s been doing really well. Being that, you know, one of the successes in my mind was your inclusion in Session Lab, the top five most listened to Facilitation podcasts last year. So you’re actually one of those thought leaders that people might be like, oh, I’m nervous to reach out to Beth. So how does that make you feel?

BETH: It’s so strange. And I had that because I wrote a book in the field, too. And that’s when it first started to happen for me, that I would have people in my network here in Victoria, and they would say, oh, well, you know, all of this because you wrote the book. [LAUGHTER] And I’d have to really qualify and say, well, just because I wrote a book or now because I have a podcast, podcast in the field doesn’t mean I know everything about anything to do with my topic area, right? Which is learning, design, and facilitation. 

So, I try to stress all the time in my work and in the podcast that I’m still learning and in fact, somebody just gave me feedback on that last week where they sent me a nice little video that said, hey, I love it so much that you’re an expert in the field, yet you’re really always bringing a beginner’s mind to the conversations that you have and showing that you’re learning, too, and they really appreciate. And I thought that was such a gift. I loved getting that video. It was really nice.

MARY: That is so cool that someone sent you a video about your feedback. And that was one of my questions. Like, I love listener interaction, though sometimes a lot of shows, you know, they don’t get a lot of it, or they might not realize that they’re receiving this feedback in different ways. So how are you getting this feedback and interacting and engaging with your listeners?

BETH: Yeah, well, this one was through LinkedIn, I must admit. It was someone that came on the podcast, so they had that, you know, close connection relationship with me. I do get random messages mostly on LinkedIn, I would say, as well, not too often, but here and there, people reach out and specifically say, oh, I like what you’re doing on the podcast. Some of them, as all of us get on LinkedIn, sometimes you just get those random connections. You don’t know why people are reaching out. 

But I get text messages from friends as well. And, uh, I don’t know. It doesn’t happen as often as I might lead you to believe right now. [LAUGHTER] But it’s really nice when it does happen, and it actually helps spur me on a little bit because, you know, I’m doing this for myself kind of selfishly, right, to keep learning, but also, I do want to make sure it’s being used and it’s helpful for people out there who are in the field.

MARY: Yeah, I kind of had the similar conversation with Joel McKinnon in the last guest, episode number 79 with him. And, you know, he has his own show, and he was like, yeah, it’s always nice to get that listener feedback, especially when it comes in like a video form or like a voice form of some sort. And so you know, if you’re a podcast listener, you should send that feedback and really engage with the host too.

BETH: Yeah. And I love, because you and I do this and use this audio medium, sometimes I’ve done it with you a couple times, haven’t I, when I listen to your podcast and I just want to send you a voice memo and be like, Mary, I love that last episode, it’s so great. And then you’ll, of course you’ll surprise me and go, can I use that audio? Which I’m like, oh no, what did I say, right? But it’s nice because then you can hear the emotion and that’s how we connect too with each other, isn’t it?

MARY: Yeah, exactly. We were talking about successes earlier too, and your inclusion in The Session Lab Report, and that to me was a big one. But I feel like there’s always the little successes too. Or maybe it should be said like, all successes should be celebrated no matter how small, right? So what’s your definition of success for your podcast?

BETH: First of all, I don’t know if I had ever, did I ever write something down? I’m trying to think in the beginning about what success would look like. I remember doing that for the book, I don’t remember doing it for the podcast. But we must have had those conversations because you led me through such a great preparation journey to get to, you know, starting it. I think I keep going back to the topics and the guests. 

So yes, I’ve been able to really meet so many people, not around the world just yet, but in different parts of the world, you know, a lot of European folks, someone from Africa. So it’s expanding and I’m trying to be deliberate about that to meet other people who have different perspectives from me. And some of the topics, of course, are things that even though we’re both in the same field, they think about that topic more deeply or they have a different level of expertise and at a deeper level of expertise in the topic than I do. 

And especially some of the topics around inclusive facilitation. I really appreciate when anyone takes the time to share their experience in that particular area with me, either their lived experience or their knowledge from, you know, just going to training about it or whatever. But so many things around particularly inclusive facilitation have been just such a gift for me, because I’m a white middle aged woman and I only have my own experience. And when I invite guests on who are different from me, no matter what, that looks like, I just try to listen and learn, and hopefully I remember I listened to every episode at least three times. So I’m trying to learn through repetition, just even to my own episodes.

MARY: Yeah. So what has been one of the biggest learning moments through having this podcast?

BETH: One of the biggest moments is just around my own vulnerability in talking about real things that I would experience in my work life. I remember when I did the episode around learning from our mistakes, and I shared a mistake that I had made. Not speaking up in a facilitated situation, you know, where I was the facilitator and I saw something happening that I didn’t quite know what it was, but it could have been a racist statement. And I didn’t say anything. 

And I remember, of course, at the time, I was just devastated afterwards, enduring, because I didn’t really know what to do. I didn’t have the skills at time. And, you know, I’ve since gone to training and talked to people and learned more about what to do and what to say to speak out in those kinds of situations. But it’s one thing to learn it yourself as a professional, and it’s another thing to then talk about it to the world in your podcast episode. 

And I remember when I was recording that one, I had to stop recording because I’m, like, reliving it now, as I tell this to you, I’m feeling, like, almost slightly weepy that I almost started to cry. Like, my voice cracked. And I thought, oh, my god, I’ve got to stop, I stopped the recording, and I just had to take a few breaths because I was scared, right? I was vulnerable to share that mistake, and it wasn’t even a huge mistake. It was like something minor that some people might not even have noticed happening in the room. 

But that kind of vulnerability, I feel, is really important. I feel it’s important to show my mistakes and, of course, then my learning from them as well. But it’s hard to do because you don’t know who’s out there listening, and you just hope that people listen to you and have grace around that, right? That we’re all kind of on a journey of learning in some way. And you hope people will be kind, and people have been. I have been lucky not to have had terrible feedback of any kind, right? Maybe just people know that we’re all out there learning, and I try to show both sides.

MARY: Yeah, I think we also come at this making a show where we want it to sound professional and be professionally representative who we are in our brand. And so with that maybe, quote unquote, societal look at professionalism, we shouldn’t be breaking that facade, right? Like, why are we being vulnerable and telling them about a mistake? That’s horrible. That’s what my mind thinks of because of that societal pressure. 

But I think on a podcast, it’s such a great medium to share things like this, because you do have that crack in your voice, that vulnerability piece, and it is that human connection where people are looking for that. We’re tired of the Instagram perfect, this way that our lives seemed to be so perfectly curated, that having these moments of sharing your mistakes are actually learning moments like, yeah, you were saying people know that we’re not perfect.

BETH: Yeah. And it’s really part and parcel of my field, and maybe it should be and is a part of everyone else’s field, no matter what they do. But I’m a Facilitator, you know, I design and I facilitate learning, and I facilitate meetings. And it’s really part of what my job is, to show up as a human and to create environments where everybody else can show up as humans, too. And we’re fallible. It’s sometimes messy, and it takes vulnerability. It takes bravery, courage, you know, all those good things. 

And so if I don’t show up like that on the podcast, then what am I doing? You know? Like, I’m not really showing how I would show up at work. When I facilitate, I make several mistakes every time, and usually I tell the group because I’m usually teaching people who facilitate as well, or design learning, and they should know that mistakes happen. And here’s what it was, and here’s how we’re going to get over it. And I don’t know. I just try to bring that human approach to the podcast as well.

MARY: So, following up on that, though, with that one episode, now that it is out, how do you feel like, about creating another episode that’s similar to that vein of that vulnerability piece?

BETH: Yeah, I do it all the time. I feel like every time I do a solo episode, you know, I do one solo episode and then three guests. And then one solo, three guests. So that’s the pattern. And every time I do a solo episode, preparing for it is, I think, the hardest part. Because it’s easy to have a guest, right? Because you meet this person somewhere online, usually, and then you maybe have a pre-meeting and you talk with them, and then you meet and you record and. And you have a great conversation. It’s very easy to do that. At least I think so. 

The solo episodes are different because it’s just me, and actually it runs contrary to how I would teach. Like, I’m not a lecturer, I’m not a presenter. I talk a lot about not doing that. So to record a solo episode, it runs against the grain because it is a lecture from me, and I get that sort of weird to do that, but I, every single time I think, well, what am I going to talk about? Like, what do I have to talk about? And I really have to work through that process of, there’s a whole bunch of things I can talk about and know about, and I just have to work my way through finding that spark of thing that’s really, like, something that I’m passionate about right now. And it could be three months from now I’m not passionate about anymore, or that could, like, it’s very evolutionary. 

But I have to work through that process of what am I going to talk about? Can I talk about that? Do I feel authentic around that? And are there vulnerable pieces in there? And let’s just go for it and see what happens. So, yeah, there’s. The solo episodes are probably more challenging, for sure, than the guests.

MARY: Yeah, I find that with my own show, my other clients, I have this one client who always says, oh do we have to do solo episodes? There’s such a heavy lift.

BETH: I know.

MARY: And I’m like, no, you don’t have to do solo episodes. I’m sure I told you this, too. You don’t have to, but listeners love hearing from hosts. You are that thought leader in your industry, and if you want to be that, I want to know what your thoughts are. 

So, I don’t have exact data to back this up, but from just what I’ve seen from the shows I’ve worked on like, sometimes the solo episodes are the most popular ones.

BETH: Yeah. I’ve never really looked to see the stats, the stacking up against, you know, solo versus guests. I don’t really pay too much of attention, but I should take a look and see. But you said something about that the people listening want to learn from us, but actually, I want to learn from myself, too, [LAUGHTER] because sometimes I don’t really realize what I’m going to say in a solo episode until I say it. Often I listen back to the solo episodes. Well, I always listen back to the solo episodes as well. And people go, isn’t that cringey? 

And I really don’t find it cringey because it helps me sort out what I think about a topic, and then I almost have to go back and listen to it again and think about what I said. And think about it again, you know, so it definitely helps me deepen my craft to do the solo episodes. But sometimes I have asked myself, do I really want to still do these solo episodes? They’re a lot of work, but no, I’m going to keep them.

MARY: There’s so much value in creating your show beyond the download numbers. I know when people start podcasting, they’re always like, oh, what are my download numbers and stuff? I’m like, just ignore those. Because there is so much value in creating your show where you can, like you said, figuring out what that messaging is and how you’re actually saying something and using this kind of like a testing ground for other things. 

I have another client who uses her solo episodes to then work out what she’s going to create a presentation on that she knows she has to create a presentation on, like, two months down the line. So what has been the most valuable thing for you by having this podcast?

BETH: Probably the International community that it allows me to tap into. Like, I’ve touched on it before, but just, yes, that I can reach out and I can use it to say, I have a podcast, would you talk to me? And everybody always says yes. And then I meet these wonderful people around the world. And then when we see each other on social media, we do know each other, you know, and we refer to each other and loop people in, tag people into our posts, and then we can watch each other and continue to learn. 

So it’s really strengthened my networks internationally, and I look forward to that happening more because I have. I’ve always been quite a connector. It’s been a strength of mine for a long time, and I lead communities of practice, and that’s very important for me to do that here locally. And then, of course, this allows me to just expand my own networks and maybe loop other people in together, too, right? Because I can say, oh, do you know Jan? Do you know Kirsty, do you know Kerri? They’re Australia and UK and Africa or, you know, Germany, wherever they are. I’m trying to connect my network here with other people Internationally. So that we all feel like this, I don’t know, sometimes one big happy family in a sense. 

But we know, just like I talked about when I did talk with the women from The Session Lab about the report, Deborah, we talked about sometimes the people that were missing. And so I’m conscious of that as well, that it is really easy to find people that are like me, and it’s not so easy to find people that are not like me just because of how algorithms work or that kind of thing. So, yeah, just always trying to figure out how to strengthen that. That network so that it’s more inclusive is something I want to pay attention to.

MARY: So when you’re reaching out for guests, how are you doing that inclusive piece? You know, like, I know you’re not just sitting there with a checklist of, oh, I’m going to talk to a person from Egypt, you know, check. I’m done that one. Like, how do you invite guests that are more inclusive?

BETH: I don’t know if I have a real plan around it. So I keep a Trello board of all the ideas for topics and all the ideas I have for guests. And so it’s a bit haphazard, I must say. And maybe going with my current excitements in the field or my current passion, sometimes it’s like, people just sort of land in my lap, right? 

So I was talking with someone from Africa, and they said, oh, I know a facilitator who’s blind, who’s been doing some tech host work for us in Zoom, and I’m just fascinated by that, right? A blind facilitator, and that person acts as a tech host. Wow, they must be so skilled. How do they do that? And so I. Then it’s right in my lap, you know, can you introduce me to that person? And so some of its haphazard. 

And then I guess always there’s the intentionality back in the back of my mind that I love to promote women. Of course, there’s a lot of women in the facilitation and learning design field, so it’s not hard to find us in this field. But I do think about gender and how I’m giving more space to women often because we haven’t been given space a lot in our lives. 

And then, yes, can I find folks from other cultures, other races, other backgrounds who aren’t like me? And I don’t have a real plan other than I try to keep aware and not have a whole bunch of white folks on my podcast that look like me and try to be more inclusive than that.

MARY: Yeah, that’s a real intentionality. And I know even for my own show, the first time I started getting guests, I was like, okay. Oh, this person reached out to me, sure. And I did it more like it was an easy yes. So let’s just put those people on until I really took a look. And I was like, wait a minute, something’s missing here. And it does take a lot of work to put in that intentionality piece. 

And just being curious, too, like, you were saying like, oh, yes, please introduce me to this person. That would be such an interesting conversation to have, right? With that blind facilitator. And so, you know, the podcasting work is always evolving, and we’re both constantly tweaking our show. And it might not be something that the listener would hear on the episode itself. It could also be, like, in the back end. But what are you still learning about and tweaking for your podcast now?

BETH: I think some of it’s for sure around the backend work of the podcast. I just listened to your episode about AI. That’s something I’m playing around with, too, and the human versus AI transcription piece, and trying to figure out how to get that right and get it really, really accurate. What was the name of your guest that was talking about the importance of getting the transcript right for people who can’t hear the media?

MARY: Yeah, that’s Joel.

BETH: Yeah, Joel. 

MARY: Yeah.

BETH: And I thought, yeah, he’s right on the money. I’ve been very intentional about making sure that there’s been a transcript for every podcast and that it’s a good one. It’s not just. Just AI generated and it’s full of errors. We go through it, and I go through it. 

So it’s still a lot of work to do that and make sure it’s as perfect as I can get it. I feel it’s been really important for me to have accurate transcripts from the get go for accessibility that comes from what we try to do in our field as well. So there’s challenges, for sure, around how much time it takes and even a little bit of the costing stuff around that. It’s very expensive to have a podcast, actually. [LAUGHTER] Right? If you don’t want to do it right. But I want to do it right.

MARY: Yeah, it does cost a lot because not just like, monetary value, but, like time too, because there are multiple people going through the transcript. Like, same here on my side. Like, I have Kristalee, who does all of my post production stuff for me and my clients, and she goes through the transcript and corrects all that stuff. And then she gives it to me, and then I quickly scan it, and I look at it, too, and then we make our tweaks, then we publish it. 

But just the other day, I was just looking on my own website for something. I don’t know which episode. It was probably like five episodes ago or something like that. So it was an old, older published episode, and I realized some of the transcript stuff was still wrong.

BETH: Oh, no.

MARY: So I had to go back in there. And I fixed it. And then I was like, no, wait a minute. I can’t just fix it on my website because with the new Apple podcast feature, I’ve been testing out uploading the transcript to Libsyn, where I host it. So it pops up on Apple podcasts as my accurate transcription. 

So now there’s like multiple layers as well, of, if I fix it on one end, you also have to fix it on the other end. It’s not just a quick one push of a button thing. Like, there’s multiple steps involved. So it’s ever evolving. There’s always going to be things that are changing, and we just gotta learn and be curious about how to make this all happen for us, because it’s a passion of ours.

BETH: Yeah. And to get support. I mean, I was always really obviously, I’m a support of you, because I hired you and still do, right? You support my podcast, and I can’t do it without you. [LAUGHTER] Mary, like, hire Mary she’s so wonderful because, you know, you’re, I always just say to guests like, Mary will, you’ll catch it, right? You’re editing the podcast, you’re making us sound better than we really do when we’re recording the episode. And that support and the time that you’re spending, it’s definitely worth it to pay for. 

And I always just think it’s, it’s the cost of doing business, right? I’ve never been afraid to spend money on the business because it will come back in other ways. And I just consider it a professional development expense for myself, basically, and just try not to worry about it. But I also do not add it up. How much it costs, I don’t want to know. 

MARY: You don’t want to know?

[LAUGHTER]

BETH: No. Just do it and it all works out in the end.

MARY: I love that perspective. Yeah. Because it is personal development. Like, same here. For my show, it’s all about learning and growing. And, um, a podcast is a great way to do that. But like we were saying, it’s a lot of work. So what keeps you going?

BETH: It’s always coming down to learning. I mean, I like to do new things all the time and learn new things. I’m in the right field for that. I do get bored of things quite easily. So when there is new learning to be had, even around AI or how to do the transcripts in the new format, now uploading to Libsyn, blah blah blah, like, there’s so much learning all the time. And I really like that. 

In fact, I’m my own worst enemy in terms of just wanting to do something new all the time, right? If anyone can relate to that. So it just feeds me the learning, feeds me, the networking. And I have a team as well. I mean, I’m not just a solopreneur. So this actually helps support my team as well. I have a couple of part time Learning Designers that work with me and Communications Coordinator, and then some subcontractors that come in a little bit less frequently. 

But they’re all or some, listening to the podcast a fair bit, and then it helps us get on the same page about our values, our philosophies as a company, right. The company that I lead. So it’s more than just a personal development. It’s my team development as well that I’m supporting here with a podcast.

MARY: I never even thought of it that way. That’s such a great perspective. You know, it’s a ripple effect.

BETH: It is. Because how do you, you know, do you send people that work for you off to training with other people? Yes. And then how do you bring them along to your vision when you’re a solopreneur? Like, part of my thing about growing my own company has been getting stuff out of my head and onto mostly digital paper or into conversations with the team. 

And this actually helps me not only support the team in a tangible way, these podcast episodes will be around forever that they can always go back to and listen to, but they can also refer clients to them and future clients or anyone out there in the world really, right? We’re just laying the foundations here of learning in our field, and we can keep them alive by keeping referring people to them. So it becomes this nice repository that we can draw on.

MARY: Yeah, that’s so nice. That’s such a great point to end on. So, as we’re wrapping up here, what are you excited about podcasting right now?

BETH: I’m excited for season three to come along. I’ve been recording already, ready to start that in August, and just, I think I always have too many ideas for the guests I want to come on, you know, I have to pace myself because I do only really episodes twice a month, so there’s always so many people that I want to talk to and want to promote on the podcast. So I’m always excited about who else I can talk to, to share with the world. 

But, yeah, just that, I don’t know, trying to pat myself on the back that I’ve lasted this long, I think, and knowing that there’s good stuff to come, but also that I can have a break around it, too, right? We’re going to break in July. I always break in December. And I know you and Joel were talking about that as well, that we do love our work as podcasters and, you know, our other work behind that, but we also have to take breaks as well. 

And sometimes I don’t want to take a break because I love it so much, but it’s necessary, and it helps us come back even stronger, doesn’t it, to just keep doing more so there’s lots of excitement, but nice to take a break as well sometimes, too.

MARY: Yeah, I use it a lot to just refuel that creativity, you know, just to reflect back. Like, okay, let’s just take a pause. Is this the path that I want to keep going down, or, okay, let’s skew a little this way now, or, yeah, like, even what we were saying before, like, taking a look at all my past guests and seeing, okay, is there a perspective that I’m missing, that I need to find a guest for that particular topic? Um, so, so yeah, the breaks are always nice.

BETH: And if anyone has ways that they think about guests and come at the booking of guests with more intentionality, I would love to see what other people are doing around that to be inclusive. If anyone has any solutions, please reach out.

MARY: Oh, I would love that, too. Great question, Beth. [LAGUHTER] That is just what you do. You always ask the right questions.

BETH: Well it’s, again, you know, you and I are two people. We know a lot, but we don’t know it all, do we? So keep making invitations to have other people share what they know with us. We’re always open to more learning, aren’t we?

MARY: Exactly. Beth, thank you so much for spending this time with me today.

[MUSIC IN]

BETH: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure always, Mary.

MARY: Oh, that was such a really nice walk down memory lane with Beth, listening to her answer about what she considers success for her podcast and she’s like, oh, I don’t remember what I wrote down, but, you know, she didn’t remember it during our conversation, but yes, when I go through, like, my notes and things she did say back then, it was about growing her network, so that she could learn from others and pass on that knowledge to other people as well. 

And so it really was about this creating a ripple effect of learning, that was all part of her foundation process when we started working together on the podcast. It’s this continuous learning piece that really resonated with me in our conversation. Working on her podcast and seeing how she’s so intentional with her learning design and in the design of this podcast, I see it in this, I hear it, and I want to also give my guests and show that same level of care. So I mean, yes, I work on her show, but at the same time, I learned so much from her. To be more inclusive, accessible, and ultimately create that culture of belonging that we all want to be a part of whether you’re a podcast host, only a podcast guest, or not in podcasting at all, and you just happen to stumble upon this podcast. 

So thank you so much, Beth, for coming on the show and supporting me with your voice notes and feedback. And have a great show yourself so that I can learn from you as well. So make sure you listen to Facilitating On Purpose as well if you are into making transformative learning experiences in your work. And as always, the link to her show will be in my show notes for this episode. 

We also did talk a little bit about, you know, working together and creating those foundational pieces to launch a podcast. So if you’re in that mindset right now and you’re thinking about starting a podcast, or you’re already in the beginning stages and you haven’t launched your show yet, I would love to chat with you about your podcast and how to make all your podcasting dreams come true. 

So you can hit me up, visiblevoicepodcast@gmail.com is always where you can leave your feedback, or of course, a voice note as well with the purple button on my website, visiblevoicepodcast.com. 

My big learning today because Beth is all about learning, that doing our work and creating our episodes with a beginner’s mindset, we are constantly learning. That is how we grow to test ourselves to do better and making mistakes. Like she was talking about making mistakes. It’s all part of that. And so I love coming to a podcast with that beginner’s mind. I think that will really have a bigger impact on the podcasting work that I do. 

So yes, like I said, talking about feedback, what was your big learning from this? What did you learn from Beth? And what, in what ways are you deepening this craft of podcasting? So, yes, I’d love to hear from you about that, and also a reminder that I’d love to hear from you through the listener survey as well. So check the show notes for the link for you to fill in the listener survey. So not only can I improve my show, but that means you’ll improve yours as well because you’re listening to my podcast, hey, it’s a whole ripple effect. 

So don’t forget, as a thank you for filling in that listener’s survey to share your thoughts. The survey is anonymous but if you want to enter to win a deck of the voice connection cards that I created to give you a boost of compassion before you hit that record button and a 30 minutes strategy session with me to talk about voice or podcasting or anything in between, go to visiblevoicepodcast.com/offers and the survey link will be on the website. 

Finally, on the next episode, it will be the final episode of the series before my summer July/August break. School is out for my kiddo, so we’re gonna take extra time to go outside and play, go to the water park, do some camping, and then of course, I’m still gonna be doing podcasting work all through the summer, right? To get back into publishing episodes. You’ll hear from me again back in mid to late September. 

So I’m going to plant that seed now, because even when I am on break, I’m not really taking a break from the podcast planning. I would love to know some things about what you’re exploring in podcasting, and that way, when you share your feedback, the new series of episodes I can create just for you. So yeah, the listener survey is a great place to leave that feedback over. Email is great too. You know the drill. All the links will be in the show notes as usual, and the transcript as well. We have a transcript of every episode is on our website. 

So until then, go speak with spirit and I’ll catch up with you in the next episode. The final solo before I have my break. I’ll talk to you then.

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<< Ghosthood Featuring Sara Azriel “Let’s Go” BEGINS >>

MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the podcaster’s guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I’d love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

<< WOMAN SINGS: Let’s go >>

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