Why We Need To Highlight Our Humanity In Podcasting with Erin Moon – Episode 77

[MUSIC IN – GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET’S GO” BEGINS]

MARY: In our previous episode, we dipped our podcasting toes into the world of audiobooks. Wondering what similarities could we learn from the other side of the spoken word industry? If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, that’s episode number 76. Make sure you go back to it after this one. Because from that episode, it really got me thinking more about how we present ourselves behind the mic and what can we learn from both artists that narrate audiobooks professionally. And of course, my curious mind led me to a mini rabbit hole down, down, down into the Google world. And that mini rabbit hole of research led me down to meeting Erin Moon.

Erin is a classically trained actor and award winning narrator who, between herself and her romance pseudonym Felicity Munro, has narrated over 450. She started in the audiobook world in 2005 as her actor survival job and it quickly became a huge part of her career. She is known for her heart, humor and honesty, as well as her character and accent work. In fact, a memorable piece of her work for me was narrating Lynne Henrys words. That is the sister of Doctor Bonnie Henry. And if you’re in Canada, you know that household name. This narration was from their 2021 book called Be Kind, Be Calm, Be Safe: four weeks that shaped a pandemic. Listening to that audiobook and going back in time with the two of them and Erin’s narration, of course, really solidified, uh, really brought forth a lot of emotions. And that is what Erin and I talk about in this conversation.

Erin is a longtime educator of actors and sought after audiobook narration coach and panelist. So I thought she’d be the perfect person for this episode and that we also both live in British Columbia where Doctor Bonnie Henry was doing her thing during those early days of the pandemic. There is a line that Erin Moon says in our conversation today, we don’t exist without each other. It’s a reminder that even when we are behind the mic, we still are speaking to someone, maybe in the room by yourself when you’re recording your podcast intros, like I am actually right now, right? Like, this is part of what we do as a podcaster, but also remembering that you are there with someone, your listener, when you are recording by yourself for your podcast. So keep that in mind when listening to this conversation today with Erin Moon, this is episode 77 on the Podcaster’s Guide to a Visible Voice.

<< WOMAN SINGS: So so so so let’s go >> 

MARY: Erin, thank you so much for coming on the show and answering my random little inquiry on your website. 

[INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

I’m so honoured that you are sharing your time with me.

ERIN: I’m so, so happy to be here. I love what you’re doing. And yeah, I’m really excited to talk to you and talk to your listener base.

MARY: Okay, so we’re all going to be about the voice and connecting with listeners. And so my background is in radio, so I learned about connection to listeners way back in the day. And for me, we were always taught you’re only talking to one person, one person at a time, because that is who is listening to you. And that’s how audiobook listeners are as well. You know, when you’re narrating, it’s only to one person at a time because they’re listening with headphones on. And podcast listeners are the same. And when you filled out my little guest form, you said, uh, connecting to text means connecting to listeners. I would love for you to elaborate more on that. What do you mean?

ERIN: So, I mean, my world is all about, I don’t do anything ad hoc. I mean, I do these interviews and I coach people and I do stuff like that in my business. But like, as a narrator, everything that I do is about honouring the text that is there, because these are, you know, works that have been long labored over, sometimes for a decade, by an author. And so my job is to look at that text and all the hints in that text and the way that, you know, an author paints a page and all the different literary devices that they use to get their point across and to make sure I’m honoring that and in honoring that and going on that ride and me really connecting to them, like, really what I’m doing is I’m trying to be that writer. The first time they put pen to page when the muse was going through them. And I have to like, catch that muse and be with that muse as it then goes further into the world in this audio form. Once an author has edited their book a whole bunch of times, it’s a different relationship they have to it. And for a podcaster, I imagine it’s much the same. You start with your inspiration, your idea, the muse, the thing that comes to you that you’re like, oh, we need to discuss this, or I need to explore this. And you write that text out, and then you spend a lot of time editing it. And then what you have to kind of find a way to do is. And what I do is come back to the essence of the spark of creation in a way. And by doing that, I give room, essentially, by honouring that text for listeners to connect for, they are kind of like my deepest confessor is what I always think of them as my very, very smart friend who were in the backseat of a car and we’ve got 8 hours and there’s no time restrictions. I don’t have to hurry. It’s just about me, you know, catching up with them. They’re like, hey, so I heard the last five years of your life have been cray cray.

MARY: [LAUGH]

ERIN: And I, and I get that opportunity to say, oh, yeah. So it started when I met this person at this cafe. And I go, and that’s our connection. And me knowing that they will love me no matter what. So I don’t have to worry about doing something for them. I just have to be true to my authentic self. And all of that, all of the food for that comes from the text.

MARY: Wow, that is a tall order, I gotta say.

[LAUGHTER]

ERIN: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not easy. I mean, I say it like that and it sounds, you know, maybe lovely and poetic and all the things,…

MARY: Yes

ERIN: …and it’s like, it’s actually the hardest work I’ve done in my entire career.

MARY: Yeah. When I’m thinking about like podcasters, you know, most of the time the work that we’re doing is in conversation.

ERIN: Yes.

MARY: Most podcasts these days are interview style, so we don’t have a chance to deal with character and accent work and stuff. But there are some moments, I was just thinking about this as you were talking about your work, that every now and then when we are sharing a story, because podcasts really are essentially stories. That’s what makes it work 

ERIN: 100%. 

 MARY: And when we are telling a story, we might be talking about, oh, yeah, that boss that I worked with. Oh, uh, like I’m gonna put on a voice and try and be like him. And he was so mean to me, you know? So we do, do a little bit of character and accent work without intentionally, like, thinking about it, I think…

ERIN: Yes.

MARY: …so what is that fine line between doing the character justice and you’re just being a stereotype at this point.

ERIN: I mean, it’s different when you’re telling a story to make that point to your friend about somebody who treated you in a certain way or you’re trying to make like the joke of, we have all got our partner voice, or our parent voice.

MARY: Oh, the parent voice. Oh, yes.

ERIN: And that’s in a short story as opposed to something where you’re looking at the character development of a larger piece of work. Because everything I do is such long form. It’s 4 to 25 hours of a huge epic story that could take place over a few days, or it could take place over a long time. And the characters that are there, I know as far as construction, why they’re there, and that they are there to push the protagonist’s story along my story, because I play the protagonist, like, they are there to push my story along, to reflect things about me and all of that. So it’s a very different intentionality, and it’s a very different context than if I’m talking to you and I’m like, I’m gonna put on my boyfriend voice. And, you know, and then my mom was like, oh, Erin, you know? Exactly. And there are moms that come up like that in stories because they rep that. And then there’s this sensitivity of, in my work, it’s like, how much does that character come up? How deep is the character development of that particular character? And recognizing that archetype is a thing. You know, there’s, mean mom and there’s nice mom, there’s sweet boss lady, and there’s mean boss lady. There’s jerk boss, who is abusive, and there is the really awesome boss that reminds you of your brother. So there’s all of these different people that show up in our lives, and they show up in these stories in much the same way. And it all depends on how they are affecting us. And the archetype of that triggers something within all of us where we go, oh, I know who that is. Like, if I do well, I know what you’re talking about, Mary, and I think that you should do this. It’s a very different boss than I know what you’re talking about, Mary. I think that you should do this. The exact same text told in two different ways with two different, very, very different archetypes, you know right away what their relationship is. And so I’m honoring, like, that really big relationship stuff, whereas when we’re telling stories, it might be the same thing. Like, I always talk, my mom doesn’t have a voice like this, but my mom is a really sweet lady. Like, I’m very blessed. I have a very lovely, sweet mother. And so when I talk like mom, I talk like she’s in fairyland all the time. She doesn’t talk like that, but that’s kind of, to me, that’s like a bit of her beautiful essence. So it’s an interesting thing. Like, in a book, I have to pay more attention to all of the way that that character is described and how they rep in the whole longer story. But in a podcast, and when we’re telling a story, we are doing a truncated version of that. We can just play a little bit more.

MARY: Okay, then. So, in this long form versus short form being podcast, the short form, how do we then strike the right tone? You know, sometimes there’s different parts to an episode. There’s the intro where you’re laying out what’s going to happen. If you’ve got a guest, you might do their bio. That’s going to be different from when we’re like, right now having this conversation. So what do you do to prep before you record to get that tone?

ERIN: I think you have to recognize your copy. So if you have notes written out for your interview, like, say you are interviewing somebody who has how to do the financial and marketing of a business, versus are you interviewing somebody who is looking at deep spiritual exploration? You’re there for two very different reasons. Your motivation to have that conversation is very different. And ideally, that’s going to be in the questions that you’re asking that person as well. So   Empathy and compassion building through story. So whether you’re writing content to explore something in history, or for an interview with someone on finance or an interview with someone in the spirituality world, I believe that the intention is about connection. So when you’re prepping yourself copy and you spent a lot of time with it, you’ve done all your edits, you found your perfect questions. You need to go back afterwards, like, throw out some of that editing brain and go back afterwards and go, yes, but how do I feel? What does this make me feel? Where does it hit in my body? Is this a moment where I put my hand on my heart? Because that’s the way I feel about that question or that moment in history? Is this a moment that gets me in my guts? Does it get me in my head? Does it get me in my loins? Where does it get me? Like, how is my body reacting? Because your body is the thing that is reacting. Your brain just computes it.

MARY: I think that’s the trouble, though. I find that when people are in that moment, which I think is a little bit different too, in the prep for copy stage, which I don’t know if it’s something that you have experience with, but, like, in these conversations, sometimes I might have a question prepped, but then I’m like, oh, yeah, I’m not feeling great about this. Like, oh, I just don’t want to ask it. It might be too vulnerable. Oh, I won’t go in that direction. Like, how do we stay open when our body is actually telling us that fight or flight, it’s like, nope, let’s just go in the other direction. I’ve got another question. They’ll be fine. I’m not going to do that follow up.

ERIN: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s an interesting, a really interesting question and exploration. When we are in the space as, I mean, honestly, as people as a whole, of really doing our individual big work, and I mean, the big mental health work, the big psychological and body work, somatic work, so that we are really good evaluators of why and when our fight and flight hits. Because sometimes that fight or flight is hitting, and that’s the exact road you want to go down. And there are other times that fight or flight is hitting, and you don’t know why because it’s a pattern that has been in there for a while. So I know that’s a, this is a bit deep on the deep question. But um, but I do actually really believe when we have a certain amount of responsibility, when we put ourselves forward in the public space like this, to be as open and clear with ourselves as we can be, so that we can be responsible in our interaction in that larger community. And sometimes that is leaning in when it gets uncomfortable. That’s actually what we’re missing a lot of the time in our society is that really beautiful, uncomfortable, vulnerable opportunity to find our way through something and to also say, I don’t know, to put that responsibility in someone else’s hands as well. And they can say, you know what? I actually don’t want to answer that right now. I’m too close to it. Or, oh, that is a great question. Are you ready to go down to the bottom of the rabbit hole with me Alice? Which cake are you eating today? Alice? I really do believe it’s our big work that helps us navigate those conversations, and I think just in our normal life, too.

MARY: Yeah, it’s funny because when we were talking about all of that, I thought, yeah, a lot of people just want to take the easy route. They just want that storybook ending. But then I was like, wait a minute. You can’t have that storybook ending until the character goes through that challenging arc and they go through what they have to go through to get to that end point. So we do have to be more open to that vulnerability piece and to go through it.

ERIN: And that’s kind of, I think, why we’re in these spaces. The reason why there’s this, like, huge push into the audio space and huge push in story and podcasting. And all of this is, we are hungry for vulnerability. We’re hungry for truth. We’re hungry for connection. We really want to be in the uncomfortable spaces with one another, and not everybody does. Some people just want to go to the loudest voice and be reaffirmed in their own convictions that make them feel safe. And I get that. And that has its place as well. And I think that there is a pretty big seed change that has been happening for a while now that is asking for us to be vulnerable with one another. 

MARY: 100%. Yeah. Let’s switch back to a little bit on the Audiobook narration side. A lot of podcasters, they have their podcast because it’s part of their marketing for their business. So they might also have a book these days. I’m saying, hey, if you’re a podcaster and you’re an author, you definitely should have an Audiobook because you have the equipment. Why not do it? So, as an Audiobook narration coach, too, what do you hear often in these podcasting? Maybe amateur voices during narration or any spoken work that’s done. What kind of advice can you give them to improve on this?

ERIN: Generally speaking, people who speak at events or are podcasters already have a relationship with copy already that they know to keep it alive. They know that their job is to not just read that copy. That being said, the style in reading copy in the podcast space goes a little bit more toward reporting has a little bit different connection and tone than sharing your own story. So there are definitely, definitely podcasts that are very successful at this, like This American Life. And, you know, Ira Glass is so great at, kind of he’s reading copy, but talking off the cuff. Right? Like, really, really excellent. What I would say is excellent acting. So he’s truly being himself, but he’s being the Ira Glass for this american life, and he’s reading that copy as though it is just flowing out of him. It’s the easiest thing in the world. And not everybody has that ability, that ability to lift the copy off the page. And so it will go a little bit more into that reporter vein of, like, today on this thing, I’m going to talk about this thing that’s on my page, and I’m going to make sure I say all the things.

MARY: Yes.

ERIN: And so I’m very much reading to you, and then the other is flattening out. I’m just going to read this, and then this is what happened. And then this is what happened, and this is what happened. And everything turns into just reading. And so, if you are, A, in the podcast space and reading copy, but also if you are an author who is in the podcast space, who is now recording your audiobook, the biggest thing is, again, go back to the moment that you put pen to page or finger to key, and remember that whoosh of inspiration, the feelings that were in your body. And again, keep asking yourself, like, why am I saying this? What is the feeling that I have? What is the seed of inspiration for this sentence? Like, what is the subtext? Essentially? What do I, I have an opinion. We all have opinions all the time about all the things that we say. So what is my opinion about what I said? So, if I’m saying I went down the street to get some milk, and it’s, say, a story about your day, that’s in your book, what happened before that? Is it, So, I went down the street to get some milk? Very different then, so I went down the street to get some milk. Very different days, very different days, very different opinions, very different circumstances that are around those two things, as opposed to, I went down the street to get some milk. So it’s very neutral now. It might be, but if the whole thing is that, then we lose, again, your humanity. If we were in that backseat of that car together or around a campfire is what I like to say. So, January Lavoy, who’s an amazing audiobook narrator, she talks about the backseat of the car, and I talk about, uh, the campfire. If we’re around the campfire, then my connection to you is I’m not reading. I’m living, reliving my story. I’m remembering my body, my cell, my neural pathways are lit up in that space in my head. I’m going to feel those feelings again. And by me feeling those feelings again, not telling you I’m feeling them, but being. I’m feeling this way. No, no, no. [LAUGHTER] But trusting that if I feel it, the way that our humanity works because of mirror neurons and a whole bunch of other things about us being community members is if I feel it, you will feel it. But if I divorce myself from the text, if I separate myself, then you and I will be separated.

MARY: Yeah. This really reminds me of, um, early in my radio school days, I had a voiceover class, right? And we all had to take our turn reading this commercial about strawberries. And everyone was just like, oh, yeah, you know, come to the strawberry farm for these delicious, you know, ripe, juicy, red strawberries. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was. Uh, so we all tried it, and we were all like, oh, yeah, you know, this person did it. Such a great job. And, like, we’re all critiquing and stuff. And then the instructor was like, okay, we’re going to bring in our other instructor, Judith Campbell. Love Judith. She does a lot of voiceover work as well. So then, like, she was just new as an instructor that year, and so this was my first interaction with her. So she gets into the voice booth, and she reads the exact same commercial, and everyone had, like, their jaw dropped, and they were just like, I want to eat the strawberry. Where is it? Like, how, how, how did you do that? And it was just that realization in the moment that, oh, this is what we can actually do with our voice. We can compel people and touch into their emotions all just from the words on this page. So I’m wondering, share a time in early in your career when you realize this.

ERIN: Yeah, so, well, uh, one of the things I just want to talk about that is she’s not doing it with her voice. And that’s one of the biggest things. What she did with you all, she didn’t manipulate you with her voice by using her voice in a specific way. And I think that’s actually a trap that people get into when they think of, oh, well, now I’ve got this stupid mic in front of my face, and now I’m obsessing over the way I sound. And nobody does that in their normal life. Nobody manipulates each other specifically thinking about their voice. They might manipulate you, [LAUGHTER] but they’re not manipulating you specifically thinking about their voice.

MARY: That wasn’t the intent.

ERIN: Oh, my gosh. That is one of the biggest mistakes that a podcaster, an audiobook narrator, anybody. Voiceover, too. Anybody who is doing anything with a mic, that you are voicing something or that you are using your voice in a very specific, manipulative. I hate that word, way, for so many reasons. That it is 1000% about bringing your truth. Yes, there are techniques. Yes, there are ways in which, like, I spent five years in school, from 8:30 in the morning until 10:30 at night, six days a week, learning the practical business of acting, learning the technique of acting, learning characterization, learning script analysis, learning how to use my voice in all these different ways. And the second I get on stage or the second I get behind my mic, I have to throw all of that out and trust that it’s there. I have to trust that all the technique is there, all my practice is there. That’s the thing about the copy, too. All my editing is there, and I have to throw it all out, and I have to, have to bring my humanity, I have to bring my vulnerable heart. If I don’t walk away from the booth feeling like I need to kind of rinse out my day because I’ve been in somebody else’s body all day, then I haven’t done my job. And I believe that to be the case also for podcasting, where you should be walking away from your work and not thinking well, I voiced that really well, or you know, I sounded really great there as opposed to that interview. Really got my guts going. I’m gonna go have a nice cry, you know? Yeah. Or I’m gonna go laugh, or. And I think very early on in my acting career, one of the biggest things you’ve learned in first year acting is when your teachers are basically yelling at you to stop lying is that you can’t put it on. People know when we’re being untruthful, and people know when we’re putting on a character that’s not connected to our own humanity. I put on characters all day. It’s not my life. It’s somebody else’s given circumstances, but it’s going through my body, and my body has experienced x, y, and z, so it still has to be connected. I have to believe so completely in those given circumstances that they are mine for that time. And if you’re being yourself, like, as a podcast host, you’re being yourself, but you’re being yourself in your most open kind of, conversational, connecting with my interviewee, or my listeners. You’re bringing your humanity, so you have to kind of throw out these ideas that there’s a way to do it, there’s a way to sound. That’s a big one. And you and I were chatting a little bit before we started about this. Like, one of the greatest things that we can continue to bring into our world is our authentic voice is not sounding like the all, you know, the mid atlantic radio shows of old, that our humanity is in the way we sound. It’s in our accents, it’s in our quirky ways that we, like, I’m a born and raised Canadian who spent 13 years in the states and spends most of my day speaking like an American. So I catch myself when I sound Canadian now, because I mostly sound American. And, like, the little quirky things that are us. That’s the good stuff. That’s the beauty.

MARY: I know I was at a networking thing once, and someone’s like, you’re Canadian, aren’t you? I’m like, how did you know? I thought we all sounded the same. And she’s like, you said, PRAW-gress versus PRO-gress. And I was like, didn’t even notice that. Yeah, and that’s my little quirky thing.

ERIN: There’s so much. And, like, think of all the cultural backgrounds and ethnic backgrounds and all of the different ways we exist in community, and those 100% affect the way that we have Syntax, the way we write, even when people are writing copy. Here’s one for your podcasters. When you are writing copy, don’t write out your humanity. Don’t write out, think that there’s some way that you have to be speaking to be behind a mic in any way. We’re done with that. I feel like, in so many ways, our society is absolutely fed up with that ideology, that our individuality is what makes us one. Not that we are all the same, because we aren’t in any way, shape, or form, but our individuality and that we are individuals is what brings us together.

MARY: Yeah, it totally does. And this is the full day and age for this,…

ERIN: Yes.

MARY: …because when I work with people, they’re like, oh, you. You know, you worked in radio. You’ve got the radio background. How do I get that radio voice? I’m like, no, you don’t want that, because that was some dude hundreds of years ago who created this quote unquote, perfect broadcast voice, and he’s just one guy. Like, we are all human, and we all have our nuance, so why aren’t we bringing that to the table. You know, this directly goes into, you know, what everybody is talking about these days. AI. I hate talking about it, but it’s there whether we like it or not, people are using it. And for podcasters, you know what, it’s great to streamline our work processes, like summarizing episodes, writing social media posts. But specifically for the voice, though, what do you believe that we’re really losing as a society when everyone would rather not pay for like, a voiceover artist and just use AI?

ERIN: Yeah. So I think it’s a great tool. Like you said, it’s a tool. Maybe it’s a bounce of inspiration, and you’re like, okay, now I’m going to take those ideas and I’m going to write it. We are fundamentally losing whenever we make the choice to front a data set, because that’s all AI is. It’s a dataset, right. The more data you feed in, the more it has to kind of what our brain does, which is be predictive about the copy or the voice or how it would inflect or otherwise. But what it, it will never have is a body. And like I said earlier, it is our body that feels. It is our body that takes in emotion. Like the vibe, right? The vibe of somebody else. You know, when you meet somebody and you’re like, oh, I just totally leaned into that person, or, ooh, I took a step back from that person. [LAUGHER] They’re not going to get full access yet. They’re going to have to earn that. Whatever that is, that is within us, that is actually a survival mechanism. It is fundamentally a way for us to know if we are safe, if we are welcomed, if we are in a situation that is exciting or going to help our serotonin levels, which is going to help our survival. Like, there’s all these aspects of our humanity that our body things. It’s why somatic psychotherapy and somatic practices are what help people who’ve been through trauma and things like that, because our body holds the score. It’s Bessel van der Kolkis all of the research that Bessel van der Kolk does. So because AI doesn’t have a body, all it is, is a computing predictive dataset. So we are losing literally all of our humanity when we make the choice to front AI voice or AI in writing. And this is the thing that always kind of boggles my mind, is when an author is willing to work with an AI voice, that means they just fed the data, set their own writing style as well. The way they put together sentences. All of that now exists within the predictive dataset that is AI to go, oh, well, I want to write in that writer’s style. Well, great. There’s a whole dataset now that I can pull from and look at and go, okay, great, I want to write like them, and I could just write like them. Now, if I pull that data set, the difference with a voice is it exists in my body, it doesn’t exist in my head. It fundamentally is part of my body. And so all the choices that I make because of how my body reacted to what I said a moment ago, like, I’m gonna go get some milk line. When I say, how would a dataset be able to know that? Because I just had an argument with somebody. That the way I say I’m going to go get the milk is actually linked to the fact that my heart hurts, that my guts feel empty. Think of all the things we talk about. My stomach fluttered, it felt like butterflies. I have heartache. Her bowels turned to liquid. You know, that is a very visceral image, and it is something we have all felt when we got really scared or unsure, it is our body that feels those things. And when I’m, when I am with text, that is what my body is doing. My body does that all day long. And that is what gives me the choice to say that line of, so, I went to get some milk, because I am so unsure about my life, or so I went to get some milk because I just got what I wanted, and it’s because of how I just felt in my body. It’s like emotion bleed. The motion is bleeding into the next line.

MARY: Wow, that was really beautiful. Every time you switched into reading that line differently, I caught it. I caught that anger or that sorrow, or, you know, that emotion.

ERIN: It’s just a line about going to get milk. And how is AI ever going to know that? Because of this other thing. I’m walking down the street different. I can picture her. I picture her every time I’ve said those lines. In this time with you, I picture the way she’s walking. I feel it in my body. I mirror, neuron, my own imagination. Whether you’re again in a podcast or in an interview, it is our bodies that are there that show up for one another. It’s not a dataset. That’s another reason why we got. We have to. I believe, like, I actually believe I have a deep responsibility to keep my humanity in everything I am doing, to make sure that I am a feeling. Being when I am in any sort of storytelling podcast, otherwise space that I am never just reading, because AI can do that. There’s great AI voice out there that is, at the end of the day, pretty flat and not nuanced in any way, shape, or form. After about a minute and a half of listening for me, my body actually reacts to it… 

MARY: Oh, me too.

ERIN: …I actually start to feel sick. I start to feel sick in my body because it’s like my body knows that’s not, no, no, no, no, no, that’s not how people are. That’s not how we work. We’re more variant than that, or variable. 

MARY: Wow. I can talk to you forever.

ERIN: I know. I feel like that, too, especially about these things.

MARY: Yes, exactly. But I’m gonna let you go because I’ll be respectful of your time. And I’m so glad that we had this conversation. What are you excited about in podcasting right now?

ERIN: Uh, my favorite podcast are about debunking the common ideas we have around history. 

MARY: Oh

ERIN: And, like, I love throughline, and I love, So This Is Canada with, um, oh, darn it. I can’t remember their names, but two fantastic podcasters at work with CBC, and it’s about debunking what we have been told around history. And I love it because all of the podcasts that I am listening to that are in that vein are all about the hosts are being everything that they are. They are bringing their full humanity. They are bringing their deep vulnerability. And because of that, I feel so connected to them. And they’re people who I may never meet in my life, but they’re sharing something so important with me that I’m grateful for that. Yeah. So I love that we are, keep leaning into being our incredible, diverse, just unbelievable, individual, authentic selves.

MARY: So beautiful. Erin, thank you so much for your time.

ERIN: Thank you. I’m so glad we got to do this.

[OUTRO MUSIC IN]

MARY: Oh, thanks, Erin, so much for that. I was going to say insightful or enlightening, those are always, like, my common words to use. But thought provoking conversation, I think, is what I’m after. Yeah. You know, during that interview, we were talking about what a podcast interview does to you after it’s completed. And many times, and especially with this one, I know it’s a good one because I spent a lovely chunk of time after I hit that record button to stop the recording, save all my files, and upload my backups, my usual workflow. Now I realize I need to block off time after an episode is recorded, because these conversations always compel me to learn more. How as a podcaster, can I be more intentional with my questions and curiosity? It’s after these podcast interviews and conversations that really drive my interest. And so I gotta block that time off to be in the moment with that conversation. How I’m feeling. Like feeling in my body too. Like what she was saying, it’s our humanity, as she says that we need to keep that intact no matter what is happening in our world, whether it is advancing technology, you know, AI or social norms like what we are thinking we need to do, supposed to do that are really presented to us. So that humanity piece is so key. I would love for you to be silly, be inquisitive, be serious, be sad, be joyful, be it all, and more, however you want to be. This is for when you’re doing your show prep before recording even happens, and especially when the recording is happening when you are behind the mic. You know, it was also Erin who made me realize this was all in my workflow before the recording happened, that I needed to also update my guest release form. This is the legal document that I send all my guests when they come to agree and be on my show. Basically to let them know and agree that the conversation will be recorded and we will be editing the conversation. 

So what she wanted to include, and I didn’t even hesitate for a second to update this was a note about not using the guest’s voice to train or sell to create AI based models. So using the recording to basically teach a machine and learn from our voices, I believe everyone should be compensated fairly for their work. So if you want to be paid to have AI learn how you voice something, that’s cool, that’s up to you. It is your voice. You have the right to do what you want with it, especially as a podcaster, a speaker. It is work that you are doing with your voice, and also it’s part of the audio branding that I talk about. You know, who knows what all this machine learning is doing with our voices. 

So, there’s so much to talk around this. But if you’re looking to update your guest release forms, I encourage you to look into this aspect of it, and I hope you add a bullet point on the AI based models based on your guest’s voice and what you will or will not do with it. So there you go. What’s your thought on this whole humanity piece versus AI and the world of podcasting? Erin and I really could have gone down so much further down that Alice in Wonderland, squirrel, that we mentioned in our conversation but I’d love to hear from you what triggered you in this episode. As usual, you can leave me a voice note on my website with that purple button. The send voicemail button or email is always lovely to receive, visiblevoicepodcastmail.com and as usual, I will also post on my social media accounts. If you want to have the conversation there. Keep your eye out for posts on LinkedIn and Instagram. That’s where I hang out. And of course, all of those notes will be in the show notes. So, thanks again to Erin Moon for being my guest today, and thank you for listening and for also using your humanity and compassion while you podcast.

On the next episode. It’s going to be published in May. The first episode for May and May is speech and hearing month, and I wanted to do an episode around transcripts for like two years now, maybe more than that. And now that Apple Podcasts has included transcripts in their latest iOS for their app, it’s high time I go deeper into the how and why of transcripts for podcasts, maybe even beyond the use for SEO and accessibility. We’ll dig deeper into all of that, into the next episode, so we’ll chat with you then.

[MUSIC IN // OUTRO – SHOW CLOSE]

<< Ghosthood Featuring Sara Azriel “Let’s Go” BEGINS >>

MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the podcaster’s guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I’d love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

<< WOMAN SINGS: Let’s go >>

[MUSIC ENDS]